View Poll Results: Tax cuts cost nothing and are free

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  • No way.

    47 40.87%
  • Yes, they are free

    68 59.13%
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Thread: Tax cuts are free

  1. #101
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I never denied that a tax cut might mean the government has less revenue but I deny that the term "cost" is applicable anymore than if I retire tomorrow I don't have my salary coming in. Costs are what I have to pay for.
    Hence why your argument has repetitively failed. You ignore the cycle of inflows and outflows and only examine costs as a direct outflow. You have repetitively ignored my analogy showing how inflows and outflows can define costs in actual, real ways.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #102
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    but those who claim tax cuts "cost" money are using that to try to make it sound like the rich are getting government spending the same as special interests who get pet projects FUNDED by the EXPENDITURES of government funds.
    Come again? Where did anyone do that? Or are you, as usual, making **** up?

    OC was making more out of it in an attempt to try to prove something
    Actually the point was to prove you are, as usual, wrong.

    it also is dishonest to say a tax cut is a handout the same as welfare payments.
    And who said that? Making **** up again eh?

    the more important point was the one I made earlier--trying to bash tax cuts as being handouts is dishonest and that is clearly the intent of those who claim that tax cuts are a cost to the government equivalent to say spending millions to research sexual practices of armadillos or sending some questionable regime a couple dozen of our most advanced air-superiority fighters
    Uh, the only person arguing that was you. No one argued that tax cuts are handouts. In fact, I have repetitively argued that the recent tax cuts are nothing more then loans. Lord T pointed this out today and you ran away from his post.

    The argument is that you are wrong on the notion that tax cuts are free. If tax cuts were free, we should have no taxes. See how simple that was?
    Last edited by obvious Child; 09-20-10 at 02:32 AM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #103
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Then explain how a tax cut WOULD NOT mean that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE (either government or private sector) would have less money? Doesn't less money than you normally have = cost Where I come from, ANYONE who is giving up money, is paying a COST. LOL
    Well, first off, there's the fact that tax cuts routinely generate more revenue than would have been generated without them.

    Then there's the fact that I don't particularly care if a car salesman can't sell a particular car because the would be buyer was prevented from stealing the money to pay for it.

    Generally speaking, it's really easy to "pay" for tax cuts.

    Stop spending someone else's money.

  4. #104
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your definition of cost is faulty. If you have no money that doesn't mean you have costs. Its only if you spend do you have costs
    No you can only see this from one perspective and that inability is your fault. It is a cost the fact that the Bush tax cuts raised your debt substantially because of the assumption that they would pay for themselves.. when they clearly have not. The whole argument is it would increase revenues when it didn't.. so the fact it predicted to increase revenues and completely failed at it makes it a cost.. its added debt.

    EDIT: "Voodoo Economics" indeed.
    Last edited by Gabriel; 09-20-10 at 03:47 AM.

  5. #105
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Turtledude has repetitively argued that tax cuts cost nothing, aka they are free.

    So do you agree, that tax cuts cost nothing, that they are revenue neutral, that they are free?
    Only on planet right wing delusion.
    PeteEU

  6. #106
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Only on planet right wing delusion.
    eurosocialist nonsense notwithstanding my definition of a cost versus revenue source is as sound as yours and you and OC's attempt to ridicule my definition because you don't like the fact that I reject the assumption that cutting taxes (perhaps a decrease in revenue) is the same as increasing spending is without merit.

    look up the definition of cost there are many and mine is as valid as yours

    The total money, time and resources associated with a purchase or activity



  7. #107
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    No you can only see this from one perspective and that inability is your fault. It is a cost the fact that the Bush tax cuts raised your debt substantially because of the assumption that they would pay for themselves.. when they clearly have not. The whole argument is it would increase revenues when it didn't.. so the fact it predicted to increase revenues and completely failed at it makes it a cost.. its added debt.

    EDIT: "Voodoo Economics" indeed.
    wrong government spending did not tax cuts. and revenue went up with those cuts

    you utterly fail-again



  8. #108
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Well, first off, there's the fact that tax cuts routinely generate more revenue than would have been generated without them.
    Which no one has ever proven. And to which I asked you to prove and you entirely ignored.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #109
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Which no one has ever proven. And to which I asked you to prove and you entirely ignored.
    He can't. There is no evidence it did at all. The fact is now currently the debt is worse then it was before the bush admin took over by far and away. The bush tax cuts only watered down revenues. They did not increase the tax base it's clear that theory is a complete pile of ****.

    The debt is larger after the bush admin and his tax cuts were in place the whole time. The tax base has been reduced and so have revenues.

  10. #110
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    He can't. There is no evidence it did at all.
    I wouldn't say that. The problem with the argument that tax cuts generated more revenue then they cost is that no one has ever run the necessary statistical models to prove it. Every time we see sizable tax cuts for prolonged periods, there are also sizable expansions of government funding on average. We know for a fact that government spending increases activity. The defense industry is an iron clad example of that. And such increase in activity generates taxable income. The issue is to what extent did the tax cuts generate the growth in revenue verse other economic impacts such as government spending, increased trade, technological advancements, and a whole host of other things. Something as simple as a decline in fuel costs could result in increased spending and when we apply spending/saving multipliers, the effects can be large. This is hardly a simple issue and hence why we never see hacks actually prove their claims. I don't doubt that moving from 90% to 50% was we did in the past generated more taxable revenue. The question is whether or not moving from 35% to 38% will reduce revenue. The Laffer curve itself is nothing more then a Pareto Efficiency Frontier. And the truly ignorant think that it's a good solid economic policy. They clearly do not understand just what a Pareto Efficiency Frontier is.

    The fact is now currently the debt is worse then it was before the bush admin took over by far and away.
    While that is a true statement, America would be screwed regardless of any additional spending by Bush and Obama. Unfunded liabilities prior to Bush's election in 2000 were staggering, well above $30 trillion. Bush and Obama's additional debt is small potatoes comparatively.

    The bush tax cuts only watered down revenues. They did not increase the tax base it's clear that theory is a complete pile of ****.
    That would be difficult to prove. Did they likely reduce revenues? Probably, especially considering the actual effective marginal at those rates. But did they not increase the tax base? I'm not sure about that way.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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