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Thread: Ban on furs

  1. #101
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    Re: Ban on furs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    YEah, I love how you keep making these generalizations that are totally inaccurate. I have no problems with people in Alaska trapping furs for their own purposes. However, I do have problems with the fur industry overall, and most especially fur farms.

    I don't like factory farms of any kind. They are horrible polluters to the groundwater. As we've seen from recent food scares, they are dangerous. They're horrible neighbors. And, the treatment of animals is shameful.

    Just because we eat animals doesn't mean that they shouldn't be treated in as humane a way as possible.

    As far as banning hunting and fishing, why on earth would we want to do that? I live in the South. Most of my neighbors hunt and fish, my dad hunted and fished, I fish, my boyfriend fishes, and my kids fish. We're responsible stewards.

    I know, as someone who grew up on a farm, the difference between farm practices that are responsible and respectful of animals, and those that aren't.

    Why don't you try arguing the actual topic, instead of creating strawmen. *yawn*
    didn't you are your ally make a massive generalization about the fur industry

    I didn't say you want to ban hunting-I am saying those spearheading the fur ban movement want to ban hunting and fishing



  2. #102
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    Re: Ban on furs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    You NEED a fur coat? What, you pimpin in the hood, yo?

    bwhahhahahahhaahah.

    Chill out, bro. No one is trying to steal your guns on this thread, or your capital gains.

    And stop with the strawmen. They're lame. Didn't you have to take a basic rhetoric/logic class in law school?
    Again you are in no position to tell someone else what they need

    if someone wants a sable coat that is enough to justify them having one if they can afford

    I don't think you wish to make my education an issue because I suspect your's would be a rather poor comparative



  3. #103
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    Re: Ban on furs

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    didn't you are your ally make a massive generalization about the fur industry

    I didn't say you want to ban hunting-I am saying those spearheading the fur ban movement want to ban hunting and fishing
    I don't have allies. Deal with what I wrote, or fail. And, I refuse to defend Ingrid Newkirk. She's a moron.

    I'm very familiar with the animal rights movement. They were blowing up fur farms in my area while I was working for a gang unit, and we had a lot of dealings with ALF members as a result.

    Just because there is a lunatic fringe associated with this doesn't mean that the fur industry shouldn't be abolished. But thanks for falling prey to some major logical fallacies in all of your posts.

  4. #104
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    Re: Ban on furs

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Again you are in no position to tell someone else what they need
    I am in the position, however, to say that the industry is a massive source of pollution and animal cruelty, and neither of those things should be tolerated. I'm a voter, too, Turtle.

    if someone wants a sable coat that is enough to justify them having one if they can afford
    How about if they want a coat made of puppy skins? Can they justify that, if they can afford it? Or, would they be arrested for animal cruelty?

    I don't think you wish to make my education an issue because I suspect your's would be a rather poor comparative
    I went to one of the top rated liberal arts colleges in the U.S. and I've argued my position here coherently and without using logical fallacies. I win.

  5. #105
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    Re: Ban on furs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I don't have allies. Deal with what I wrote, or fail. And, I refuse to defend Ingrid Newkirk. She's a moron.

    I'm very familiar with the animal rights movement. They were blowing up fur farms in my area while I was working for a gang unit, and we had a lot of dealings with ALF members as a result.

    Just because there is a lunatic fringe associated with this doesn't mean that the fur industry shouldn't be abolished. But thanks for falling prey to some major logical fallacies in all of your posts.
    fallacies? LOL-I merely noted that those who want to ban the fur industry are often the same people who want to ban hunting

    and your bit about need is worthless

    I will always opt for freedom over the subjective emotions of someone who wants to control what someone else does

    I am not willing to put people out of business just to make some feel better about themselves



  6. #106
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    Re: Ban on furs

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    fallacies? LOL-I merely noted that those who want to ban the fur industry are often the same people who want to ban hunting
    That's a fallacy called poisoning the well. Just because Ingrid Newkirk also opposes hunting and fishing does not mean that everyone who opposes the fur industry is a rabid moonbat.

    and your bit about need is worthless
    Because you say so?

    The fact is that furs once served a valuable purpose. They were far warmer, long-lasting, and useful than almost any other product in areas with harsh winter climates. Human beings could not produce products that were the equivalent of fur. That is no longer the case. Many outdoors products are now much more effective than fur at retaining heat and protecting people from the elements. Thus, fur is no longer needed, because there are many products that are equally effective that don't require harming animals.

    I will always opt for freedom over the subjective emotions of someone who wants to control what someone else does
    So, if your neighbor wants to beat his wife, that's okay with you? IF your neighbor wants a coat made of puppy skins, he should be allowed to have it?

    I am not willing to put people out of business just to make some feel better about themselves
    More fallacies (appeal to ridicule). First, if fur was discontinued, the free market would, and already has, create similar status items for people with more money than intellect. The people currently employed in the fur industry could pursue making those items. Secondly, we have broad animal protection statutes in this country. Expanding them to fur animals would be logical. Protecting dogs and cats, while allowing minks and foxes to be abused is morally inconsistent. Lastly, you're a proponent of limiting MANY behaviors for moral reasons. Thus, you're being inconsistent on this issue.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 09-10-10 at 06:16 PM.

  7. #107
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    Re: Ban on furs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    That's a fallacy called poisoning the well. Just because Ingrid Newkirk also opposes hunting and fishing does not mean that everyone who opposes the fur industry is a rabid moonbat.



    Because you say so?

    The fact is that furs once served a valuable purpose. They were far warmer, long-lasting, and useful than almost any other product in areas with harsh winter climates. Human beings could not produce products that were the equivalent of fur. That is no longer the case. Many outdoors products are now much more effective than fur at retaining heat and protecting people from the elements. Thus, fur is no longer needed, because there are many products that are equally effective that don't require harming animals.



    So, if your neighbor wants to beat his wife, that's okay with you? IF your neighbor wants a coat made of puppy skins, he should be allowed to have it?



    More fallacies (appeal to ridicule). First, if fur was discontinued, the free market would, and already has, create similar status items for people with more money than intellect. The people currently employed in the fur industry could pursue making those items. Secondly, we have broad animal protection statutes in this country. Expanding them to fur animals would be logical. Protecting dogs and cats, while allowing minks and foxes to be abused is morally inconsistent. Lastly, you're a proponent of limiting MANY behaviors for moral reasons. Thus, you're being inconsistent on this issue.
    beating another person violates HUMAN rights

    killing a mink for fur is no different to the MINK than killing a cow for beef

    as long as mink are killed in a humane manner its hard to claim its ok to kill cattle so people can eat beef but not mink so people can wear fur==no one is justifying abuse but I suspect minks are treated better than chickens

    Banning fur would be a step towards banning meat-I don't want to give the PETA clowns any momentum. Again the issue isn't forcing fur farms to treat animals humanely but outright BANNING the industry no matter how it is run

    what do I want to limit? telling libs they cannot take other peoples' wealth is not a limitation on anyone's rights.



  8. #108
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    Re: Ban on furs

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    beating another person violates HUMAN rights
    How about wearing a coat made out of puppy skins? WOuld you be okay with that?

  9. #109
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    Re: Ban on furs

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    How about wearing a coat made out of puppy skins? WOuld you be okay with that?
    are puppies somehow different than minks? the chances of that selling is about slim to zero though

    in china when you ask someone to WALK the dog make sure you spell it out

    IN France Horses are food animals

    but mink are traditional sources of fur.

    are you against the fur industry because

    1) its ok to kill animals humanely for food but its not for fur

    2) the fur industry is always going to be inhumane

    3) or mink are cuter than chickens

    the first issue involves should humans be able to raise and kill animals for certain products. I don't see food and fur being all that different

    the second issue is-should farmed animals be treated humanely? obviously yes

    the third issue is can the fur industry treat animals as well as food animals



  10. #110
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    Re: Ban on furs

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    are puppies somehow different than minks? the chances of that selling is about slim to zero though
    So, as a country, we already have standards for humane treatment of fur-bearing mammals. Correct? Expanding those protections to close relatives of dogs (coyote, foxes), as well as other mammals is not out of line with our existing standards for humane and ethical treatment of animals.

    Your argument that fur should not be outlawed for moral reasons has been debunked.

    It is ALREADY a criminal act to abuse animals. Protecting fur animals would be consistent with this stance.

    Furthermore, we've had those standards for at least a hundred years WITHOUT banning meat-eating. Which renders one of your other arguments moot.

    IS this really the best you can do, throw out a bunch of fallacious nonsense riddled with grammatical errors?
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 09-10-10 at 06:35 PM.

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