View Poll Results: What do you think of allowing a random sample of citizens to govern?

Voters
34. You may not vote on this poll
  • I like it

    6 17.65%
  • I don't like it

    19 55.88%
  • I'm neutral

    9 26.47%
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 67

Thread: Deliberative Democracy

  1. #1
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Deliberative Democracy

    Check out this article in TIME Magazine. James Fishkin suggests a good model for governance: Choose a representative sample of the population, and have them serve as the government. This has been implemented in many localities in several countries...but the greatest success of this form of democracy comes from China, of all places. The coastal district Zeguo governs itself in precisely this manner, by picking a random sampling of its citizens, teaching them about the issues, allowing them to ask questions of experts, and then having them decide on their own.

    I really like this idea. I think it would solve a lot of problems with gridlock, incumbency, and partisanship...while also preserving most of the reasons we have democracy in the first place: To accurately represent public opinion, and to prevent abuses of power and corruption.

    What do you think of this idea? What flaws (if any) do you foresee in a system like this?

    How Can a Democracy Solve Tough Problems? - TIME
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-05-10 at 03:36 AM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Deliberative Democracy

    I proposed that idea 15 years ago, except I required the candidates meet minimum requirements of education, productivity, maturity, and loyalty.

    Given that American high schools excel at producing unskilled labor, clearly the candidate pool has to have more than a high school education.

    The candidate should have some experience living, which means a minimum age requirement of 30 years old. Damn stupid of this country to have children who've never held a job they couldn't afford to lose voting in elections.

    A productive person has either held a job long term or run his own business. Thus candidates would have a minimum of five of the seven years prior to his candidacy employed.

    The candidate can't be living in his mommy's basement, or attic, or othewise have failed to exit the nest.

    The candidate must have proven a sacrifice to the nation to qualify. That means, cop, fireman, military veteran. Americorps weenies need not apply.

  3. #3
    Advisor Johnny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Seen
    06-24-11 @ 07:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    571

    Re: Deliberative Democracy

    This is more or less how our government was ran in the first place. The founders didn't intend for the elite/career politicians to only hold office. Public service was meant for you and me and our neighbors. One of the best known examples is George Washington. Granted he was a war hero and wealthy land owner but he served his time the went back to his plantation.

    The guy working at a warehouse and living a humble life in his small apartment should have the same chance as the Harvard grad.
    “The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
    -James Madison

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Deliberative Democracy

    No.

    The United States has something called "elections", where the people choose the holders of office, or at least choose the electors.

  5. #5
    Advisor Johnny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Seen
    06-24-11 @ 07:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    571

    Re: Deliberative Democracy

    I understand that. Everybody should have the chance to run.

    I was speaking against your post. You seem to think those that can't go to college and can't afford a home should be treated as second class citizens.

    I never said there aren't elections.
    “The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
    -James Madison

  6. #6
    Advisor Sanitas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The world.
    Last Seen
    03-05-12 @ 02:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    459

    Re: Deliberative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    This is more or less how our government was ran in the first place. The founders didn't intend for the elite/career politicians to only hold office. Public service was meant for you and me and our neighbors. One of the best known examples is George Washington. Granted he was a war hero and wealthy land owner but he served his time the went back to his plantation.

    The guy working at a warehouse and living a humble life in his small apartment should have the same chance as the Harvard grad.
    Agreed. Nobody should be able to make a career as a politician.
    "All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language...No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - John Donne

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Deliberative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    I understand that. Everybody should have the chance to run.

    I was speaking against your post. You seem to think those that can't go to college and can't afford a home should be treated as second class citizens.

    I never said there aren't elections.
    I was speaking that the uneducated are less likely to be good leaders. Which isn't to say that over educated people make good leaders, look at the last few clods we've had in the White House.

    But no, a fifty year old tow motor driver at a factory is not someone capable of making leadership decisions, he's never demonstrated any ability in that area. The engineers and businessmen running that factory have the useful experience. No, your average schlub isn't qualified to run a nation. Which is the problem with elections, again, pay attention to the incompetent boob in the White House currently doing more damage to the nation than any of his predecessors. He does not fit the criteria I posted.

  8. #8
    Technomancer
    Hoplite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    05-08-11 @ 03:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    3,779

    Re: Deliberative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No.

    The United States has something called "elections", where the people choose the holders of office, or at least choose the electors.
    The current political process is a joke and I pray to every god and goddess there is that you understand that.


    I would like to see the idea piloted in the US, but I have serious concerns.

    What do you do if people get power-hungry, can you force the group out of power if that happens and who does the forcing?

    What do you do if you get one egocentric jackass that holds procedures up because he's enjoying the power?

    Humans have a natural tendency to "clique", what's to stop cliques among these random people from impairing their judgement?

    How do you ensure you dont accidentally end up selecting a group of all one particular political persuasion, which in America isnt terribly unlikely?

    What do you do if groups start counter-manding each other or trying to undo the work that one group just did because they disagree with it?


    I'm not opposed to it, but I am somewhat skeptical. Again, I would want to see the idea piloted in a major city or even a state before I would start gelling into being for or against it.
    I'm Done

    See my last post

  9. #9
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Deliberative Democracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    What do you do if people get power-hungry, can you force the group out of power if that happens and who does the forcing?
    As I understand the idea (or as I would suggest), the random sample of the population only serves for a certain length of time, just like Congress. Once their two years (or however long) was up, there would be a new random sample of the population that took office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite
    What do you do if you get one egocentric jackass that holds procedures up because he's enjoying the power?
    I suppose that's always a possibility. However, there are a lot of egocentric jackasses in our legislatures that currently do it. I bet that the amount of that would be severely reduced, since the people who were holding power wouldn't come in (in most cases) with any partisan animosity, worries about reelection, or grudges against their colleagues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite
    Humans have a natural tendency to "clique", what's to stop cliques among these random people from impairing their judgement?
    Nothing...but we currently have cliques in most legislatures around the country (i.e. political parties) that certainly impair their members' independent judgment. Now I'm sure that people would group with other like-minded people. They won't always choose right. The idea isn't that they would do everything perfectly; just better than the current system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite
    How do you ensure you dont accidentally end up selecting a group of all one particular political persuasion, which in America isnt terribly unlikely?
    I'm not sure what you mean. Why would this be more likely to happen in America than anywhere else?

    If you take a random sample of the population, you should get an accurate idea of the public's views. This is the premise on which polling is based and there is a lot of statistical support for this argument. The bigger the sample you took, the more likely it would be to accurately represent the public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite
    What do you do if groups start counter-manding each other or trying to undo the work that one group just did because they disagree with it?
    I don't think this would happen unless you didn't change groups very often (i.e. every two years). The next group that comes into power will probably be very similar to the previous one, since they were both random samplings from the same population. Unless the voters have drastically changed their opinion on something while the officials have not (which would probably only happen if the officials implement something that becomes a disaster), I don't see any circumstances where this would happen. And under those circumstances, it's probably a good thing that the new group would try to undo the work of the previous group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite
    I'm not opposed to it, but I am somewhat skeptical. Again, I would want to see the idea piloted in a major city or even a state before I would start gelling into being for or against it.
    Ya, I'd like to see more localities adopt it. I'm not sure if it would be constitutional at the state level, since the US Constitution guarantees states a republican form of government and I'm not sure if this would qualify. But it would definitely be good to see major cities willing to pilot this idea.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 09-05-10 at 06:37 AM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  10. #10
    Frankernaut peepnklown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-16-15 @ 04:01 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    607

    Re: Deliberative Democracy

    This model has already been tired a long, long time ago; Athenian democracy had this feature.
    We need to follow the Declaration of Independence! We need to put government back into their small boxes (federal & state); then and only then, we can talk about you and our neighbors running for office.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •