View Poll Results: Should Israel temporarily continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the WB?

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Thread: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    I also hope that the Palestinian government would be willing to give up Jerusalem... though I highly doubt that would happen.
    Heh, will never happen ofc. Palestinian people wouldn't allow it. Heck, Arabs would never allow that to happen.

    And I voted yes, both sides need to make sacrifices/concessions
    Last edited by Laila; 08-30-10 at 01:56 PM.


  2. #22
    Educator Jucon's Avatar
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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Filling in a circle.
    That's the definition of the term "natural growth", the term that Netanyahu has decided to freeze nearly 10 months ago.



    I agree that the settlements are wrong, but no new settlements were built for more than a decade and no new settlements will be built in the future.
    What's left now is to reach the peace agreement that would dismantle those settlements (the majority of them), but I don't agree with a permanent freeze on the natural growth of those existing settlements.
    While they're not dismantled, people are living there.
    To be more specific, when you you say filling in a circle are you saying filling it in "from the outer edge - in" or "from the center - out"? If it is the latter, that in my mind is claiming more territory. To expand an area any other way sounds a bit strange to me, but anything is possible.

    But I'd think expanding existing settlements would make it that much less attractive for the Israeli citizens to dismantle them in the future. It would be that much more that would need to be given up by the people currently living in the settlement. I don't think they'd appreciate being uprooted from their current location.
    "There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, it to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution." —John Adams

  3. #23
    wʜɪтe яussɪaи Tashah's Avatar
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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    In November of 2009, Israel announced a temporary settlement freeze which is scheduled to expire in September of 2010. This was a voluntary gesture of good will.

    As to extending the temporary freeze, I say yes. As long as direct negotiations remain in effect. I think such a temporary freeze should apply to East Jerusalem also which was not included in the Israeli gesture of November 2009.

    One must take into consideration though, that each side views the term "freeze" differently. Abbas views a freeze as including both internal and external expansion. The government of Israel views its freeze as external only. No outward expansion of settlements. But Israel reserves the right to improve and maintain within the settlements... i.e. expanding a school to meet enrollment needs, adding a new fire station to increase coverage, completing scheduled construction projects, etc.

    Unless and until there is a mutual agreement on what the term "freeze" actually means, then there can be no mutual agreement on what would constitute a freeze violation.

    אשכנזי היהודי • Белый Россию

  4. #24
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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yes they should, and it should be permanent. What purpose do Israeli settlements serve, other than to inflame tensions with the Palestinians? They don't benefit the State of Israel in any way whatsoever, and are far more of a nuisance than they are worth. Israeli politicians who allow it are simply pandering for votes, not taking any kind of principled stand.
    Voted Yes.

    What Kandahar said.

  5. #25
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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    In November of 2009, Israel announced a temporary settlement freeze which is scheduled to expire in September of 2010. This was a voluntary gesture of good will.

    As to extending the temporary freeze, I say yes. As long as direct negotiations remain in effect. I think such a temporary freeze should apply to East Jerusalem also which was not included in the Israeli gesture of November 2009.

    One must take into consideration though, that each side views the term "freeze" differently. Abbas views a freeze as including both internal and external expansion. The government of Israel views its freeze as external only. No outward expansion of settlements. But Israel reserves the right to improve and maintain within the settlements... i.e. expanding a school to meet enrollment needs, adding a new fire station to increase coverage, completing scheduled construction projects, etc.

    Unless and until there is a mutual agreement on what the term "freeze" actually means, then there can be no mutual agreement on what would constitute a freeze violation.
    Actually that's not entirely correct there Tashah, the freezing was a freeze of natural growth, expansion of settlements doesn't occur anyway, with the freeze or without.

    The natural growth of the settlements is defined as "a vague term that refers to construction in existing settlements to accommodate growing families".

    Source: Haaretz
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 08-30-10 at 03:36 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    To be more specific, when you you say filling in a circle are you saying filling it in "from the outer edge - in" or "from the center - out"? If it is the latter, that in my mind is claiming more territory. To expand an area any other way sounds a bit strange to me, but anything is possible.
    I don't understand your question.
    What I'm saying is that the existing settlements do not expand over their defined land. (except of those outposts that settlers build that are illegal according to Israeli law as well)
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  7. #27
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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, but for a limit amount of time only.

    Frankly, both sides need to start giving a bit and dealing with reality.

    Give up the notion that Gaza must be involved in this. They're single handedly doing more harm to the Palestinian people in the West Bank than Israel, as it is Gaza which is hampering their ability to truly get this talk done. They've had a chance, cut the cord and let Gaza deal with themselves and let the West Bank citizens establish Palestinine.

    Second, perform a landswap. Allow Israel to keep the land in the West Bank they currently have, while gaining an equal amount of land elsewhere. Will the land necessarily be of equal value? Perhaps not. However, the fact of the matter is that the Palestinians were offered this land and chose war instead. Israel is occupying it now because they essentially conquered it in a war where another nation attacked them. Palestine, technically, has zero land right now. More land is greater than zero land, so getting hung up on this land swap that the lands not "truly equal" is ridiculous, akin to a begger demanding that he wants five $20's instead of the $100 you gave him because some shops don't take $100's so its of more value to him.

    Israel should not extend itself or allow its citizen to extend its land any farther then it is now. Any farther expansion after this point should not be part of the land swap and regardless of how much an Israeli has built up the area, it should still go over to Palestine. A line in the sand must be drawn and an end point sent.

    The split jerusalem may be the most fair to both sides, though unsure how likely it'll be able to function.

    Get to work on an underground tunnel to allow Palestinine passage to a port.
    I like the idea of land swaps, but unfortunately it seems that many colonies are around East Jerusalem and that they also nearly cut West-Bank in 3 parts.

    The future Palestinian state must not be a kind of Bantustan, there shouldn't be Israeli "islands" into it, and there should be a connection between it and East-Jerusalem.

  8. #28
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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    I like the idea of land swaps, but unfortunately it seems that many colonies are around East Jerusalem and that they also nearly cut West-Bank in 3 parts.

    The future Palestinian state must not be a kind of Bantustan, there shouldn't be Israeli "islands" into it, and there should be a connection between it and East-Jerusalem.
    The settlements that Israel will annex as part of such land swap are the big settlements, and those reside next to the 1967 border, meaning that Palestinian land will not be disfigured.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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  9. #29
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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Explain? What's to explain? That is, unless of course you are in favor of inflaming an already volatile situation.

  10. #30
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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    Jerusalem is sacred to both sides.
    Strange indeed that man fights over a so-called sacred place.
    Think about it.

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