View Poll Results: Should Israel temporarily continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the WB?

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Thread: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    It's a very delicate issue, i believe it should be fairly partitioned. Palestinians/Israeli's should each have a connection to this sacred city.
    Last edited by 24107; 08-30-10 at 04:02 AM.

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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    It's a very delicate issue, i believe it should be fairly partitioned. Palestinians/Israeli's should each have a connection to this sacred city.
    I like the original plan that it should be shared by both, and governened by the UN.
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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    I like the original plan that it should be shared by both, and governened by the UN.
    Uh, no one ever said anything about it being governed by the UN.

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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Uh, no one ever said anything about it being governed by the UN.
    huh. really? i could've sworn one of the first plans called for Jerusalem to be run by the UN.
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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Your poll is invalid as you were misleading the voters.
    The freeze is not on "settlement expansion in the West Bank" as there was no such thing for quite some years now.
    The freeze is on what is called "natural growth", the growth of the existing settlements within their own boundaries through the construction of new houses within those settlements.

    As to the poll, since the freeze was an act of good faith for the peace talks, and since it was meant to be for 10 months, I think that continuing the freeze after the time limit that was set to it almost 10 months ago would be a horrible mistake as it shows the Palestinians that the current administration has no backbone and it can be blackmailed by threats to leave the peace talks.
    On the other hand it seems like the Palestinians are counting on that, that Israel will not renew the freeze after it expires, and that would be their ticket out of the peace talks.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Yes, but for a limit amount of time only.

    Frankly, both sides need to start giving a bit and dealing with reality.

    Give up the notion that Gaza must be involved in this. They're single handedly doing more harm to the Palestinian people in the West Bank than Israel, as it is Gaza which is hampering their ability to truly get this talk done. They've had a chance, cut the cord and let Gaza deal with themselves and let the West Bank citizens establish Palestinine.

    Second, perform a landswap. Allow Israel to keep the land in the West Bank they currently have, while gaining an equal amount of land elsewhere. Will the land necessarily be of equal value? Perhaps not. However, the fact of the matter is that the Palestinians were offered this land and chose war instead. Israel is occupying it now because they essentially conquered it in a war where another nation attacked them. Palestine, technically, has zero land right now. More land is greater than zero land, so getting hung up on this land swap that the lands not "truly equal" is ridiculous, akin to a begger demanding that he wants five $20's instead of the $100 you gave him because some shops don't take $100's so its of more value to him.

    Israel should not extend itself or allow its citizen to extend its land any farther then it is now. Any farther expansion after this point should not be part of the land swap and regardless of how much an Israeli has built up the area, it should still go over to Palestine. A line in the sand must be drawn and an end point sent.

    The split jerusalem may be the most fair to both sides, though unsure how likely it'll be able to function.

    Get to work on an underground tunnel to allow Palestinine passage to a port.

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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Your poll is invalid as you were misleading the voters.
    The freeze is not on "settlement expansion in the West Bank" as there was no such thing for quite some years now.
    The freeze is on what is called "natural growth", the growth of the existing settlements within their own boundaries through the construction of new houses within those settlements.

    As to the poll, since the freeze was an act of good faith for the peace talks, and since it was meant to be for 10 months, I think that continuing the freeze after the time limit that was set to it almost 10 months ago would be a horrible mistake as it shows the Palestinians that the current administration has no backbone and it can be blackmailed by threats to leave the peace talks.
    On the other hand it seems like the Palestinians are counting on that, that Israel will not renew the freeze after it expires, and that would be their ticket out of the peace talks.
    It was not my intent to mislead voters. Obviously the topic of Israel and the middle east is a very sensitive issue with very passionate opinions. I tried being as unbiased as possible. "Expansion" was used within the news story, so I felt it was an appropriate word to describe what is at issue. Pollsters have the articles to read if they feel the need to further understand the issue being discussed.

    However, whether an existing settlement is expanding "naturally" is irrelevant in my mind. Building within the disputed zone is building within the disputed zone and should be discouraged until the borders are finally drawn out. Israel has a lot of land to build settlements elsewhere... why must they build right along the disputed border?

    On your other note, I agree with you... I tried expressing this feeling in my second comment about the Palestinian government in my OP. The Palestinian government needs to get something done.

    Most likely not all parties will be happy with the final results, but I have the hope that both the Israeli and the Palestinian governments will be equally reasonable. Both sides need to make concessions.
    "There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, it to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution." óJohn Adams

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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    "Expansion" was used within the news story, so I felt it was an appropriate word to describe what is at issue.
    I didn't know the article has used this term, I apologize, but it is still misleading.

    However, whether an existing settlement is expanding "naturally" is irrelevant in my mind. Building within the disputed zone is building within the disputed zone and should be discouraged until the borders are finally drawn out. Israel has a lot of land to build settlements elsewhere... why must they build right along the disputed border?
    That's wrong, as "expansion" means taking more and more West Bank land by the minute. That's not the case. Settlements haven't expanded and no new West Bank land was "settled" for years now, they are only building within the already existing settlements and their boundries.

    I think that the natural growth is unavoidable. People live there, they have natural needs, they bring children to the world and need bigger houses, new schools, etc.
    The freezing of the building was acceptable due to its "good faith" value and its expected progress towards peace. It did not however draw any equal "good faith" actions from the other side.
    And as I said, if Netanyahu would renew the settlements' natural growth freeze once it expires, it would be a horrible mistake because he wouldn't abide by his word.
    He said 10 months, those 10 months are about to be over, it's a temporary freeze and not a permanent one.

    On your other note, I agree with you... I tried expressing this feeling in my second comment about the Palestinian government in my OP. The Palestinian government needs to get something done.

    Most likely not all parties will be happy with the final results, but I have the hope that both the Israeli and the Palestinian governments will be equally reasonable. Both sides need to make concessions.
    No objections here.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    That's wrong, as "expansion" means taking more and more West Bank land by the minute. That's not the case. Settlements haven't expanded and no new West Bank land was "settled" for years now, they are only building within the already existing settlements and their boundries.

    I think that the natural growth is unavoidable. People live there, they have natural needs, they bring children to the world and need bigger houses, new schools, etc.
    The freezing of the building was acceptable due to its "good faith" value and its expected progress towards peace. It did not however draw any equal "good faith" actions from the other side.
    And as I said, if Netanyahu would renew the settlements' natural growth freeze once it expires, it would be a horrible mistake because he wouldn't abide by his word.
    He said 10 months, those 10 months are about to be over, it's a temporary freeze and not a permanent one.
    Just so I know we're on the same page, when you say "building within the already existing settlements and their boundaries", are you saying for example filling in a circle, or making a circle bigger?

    And I'd also have to ask the specific locations of these settlements you are referring to. In my mind anything that was built along the disputed border is equal to claiming the land without due-process.

    I'd have no problem with Israel building new or expanding existing settlements far within Israel, but building right along the disputed border is like claiming the land automatically; the Israeli government has invested time, money and resources and has moved Israeli citizens into said area, and would likely be against moving these people once deals are discussed.

    All I'm saying is wait until the borders are drawn. I can imagine it's frustrating dealing with the Palestinian government when they keep backing out, but that doesn't change my opinion. Israel has a lot of land to build on. Why do they need to build right along the border?
    "There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, it to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution." óJohn Adams

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    Re: Should Israel continue it's freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    Just so I know we're on the same page, when you say "building within the already existing settlements and their boundaries", are you saying for example filling in a circle, or making a circle bigger?
    Filling in a circle.
    That's the definition of the term "natural growth", the term that Netanyahu has decided to freeze nearly 10 months ago.

    And I'd also have to ask the specific locations of these settlements you are referring to. In my mind anything that was built along the disputed border is equal to claiming the land without due-process.

    I'd have no problem with Israel building new or expanding existing settlements far within Israel, but building right along the disputed border is like claiming the land automatically; the Israeli government has invested time, money and resources and has moved Israeli citizens into said area, and would likely be against moving these people once deals are discussed.

    All I'm saying is wait until the borders are drawn. I can imagine it's frustrating dealing with the Palestinian government when they keep backing out, but that doesn't change my opinion. Israel has a lot of land to build on. Why do they need to build right along the border?
    I agree that the settlements are wrong, but no new settlements were built for more than a decade and no new settlements will be built in the future.
    What's left now is to reach the peace agreement that would dismantle those settlements (the majority of them), but I don't agree with a permanent freeze on the natural growth of those existing settlements.
    While they're not dismantled, people are living there.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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