View Poll Results: The Worst Genocidal Murderer in History

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  • Adolf Hitler

    16 18.39%
  • Andrew Jackson

    0 0%
  • Hernan Cortes

    1 1.15%
  • Josef Stalin

    33 37.93%
  • Mao Zedong

    24 27.59%
  • Genghis Khan

    8 9.20%
  • Nero

    2 2.30%
  • Emperor Hirohito

    0 0%
  • Tamerlane

    3 3.45%
  • Maximilien Robespierre

    0 0%
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Thread: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

  1. #81
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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    But then what fun would I have here?
    Too bad they've closed the arcade.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Too bad they've closed the arcade.
    Yeah, I had the top score on one of the games.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    You should have put the Christian church on there... they killed far more people including genocidal campaigns against non believers.
    evidence?

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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Josef Stalin
    "Stalin himself is responsible for almost 43,000,000 of these. Most of the deaths, perhaps around 39,000,000 are due to lethal forced labor in gulag and transit thereto. "

    R. J. Rummel
    Professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii.
    MURDER BY COMMUNISM

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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Yeah, I had the top score on one of the games.
    Pfft.
    I'm DP's all-time arcade's champion.
    I've held 31 championships at one point of time, then I've left to get a life.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Pfft.
    I'm DP's all-time arcade's champion.
    I've held 31 championships at one point of time, then I've left to get a life.
    you've been here longer than i have, but i would've had all the top scores if the arcade hadn't vanished *cough*
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    I've decided to bump this back up to the top, as hopefully it'll encourage a new wave of poster and voters -- with any luck, voters with a sliver of historical knowledge.

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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    For your next gem of idiocy -- try not to use words like "Eurosocialist" in a negative light, because to that small group of 6.4 billion people living outside of America, socialism (especially European Union-style), is the most successful and competent socioeconomic theory on the planet. I would like to point out that us "Eurosocialists" don't hate what America stands for -- we just think you're backwards tools. It isn't fitting for us to hate lesser beings. XD
    First off, Europe is no where near beeing socialist. If they were, they would be poor oppressive countries, like every single country that has tried socialism.

    They are capitalist countries, but less than other countries around the world. However, they are actually not doing well at all. Germany, France and Italy has all three of them had very low growth rates the last 15 years. Spain has an unemployment of 20% and Greece is in a terrible shape. Even Scandinavia underperforms, because Scandinavians are historically very productive and organized. Just look at how well, Scandinavians do in the US. There is no poverty among scandinavian-americans. Some of the countries doing better, Ireland, Switzerland, UK, Netherlands are more right wing. The ones doing the worst, France, Italy, Greece are left wing countries. Just take a look at economic freedom indexes.

    On a more serious note, however, I would like to point you to the current economic situation as compared between America and Europe. The socialist (gasp!) European Union has weather the economic crisis exponentially better than America has,
    So that's why Europe ended up with lower growth rates than the US during the crisis, even though US started the crisis. Actually the unemployment in Europe is the same as US, but it did increase more in the US. However, american unemployment is going down much faster as well. Why? Because in Europe it is very hard to fire employees, also there are more restrictions for companies to invest and create jobs.

    But US isn't the model for a capitalist economy. In many ways it's quite left-wing. Capitalist countries such as Hong Kong and Singapore is doing extremly well. Singapore got 45.7% economic growth per year in the first quarter of 2010 and 24% in the second quarter and they are allready richer than the US. Australia got number 3 in the economic freedom index, US got number 8. They are doing very well, and has the highest economic growth among white western countries.
    Last edited by Camlon; 08-31-10 at 07:38 PM.

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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Are you a child, or just someone who regularly listens to FOX News?
    Neither. Don't get too offensive. I have a way of embarrassing the ignorant like you who feel the need for personal insults to "prove" their adulthood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    The Americans have always, since the start of your young nation, been behind the curb of progress, compared to Europe (especially Britain, France and Germany). I could list innumerable examples of how America is still in the 19th century compared to Europe (stem cell research bans, lack of universal healthcare, shoddy welfare, total disregard for enriched education), but that's not what I'm going to debate right now -- those are universally accepted facts, anyway.
    You won't debate these things because one, they have nothing to do with the subject of genocide, and two, you are focusing on particular aspects of western society, which is what I could do. Pointless, seeing has how America is greater at some things and Europe is greater at others. But I'm an an adult capable of discussing as an adult.

    Back to genocide, Europe's ongoing fascination for genocide lasted well into the twentieth century with Germany and Russia and into the 90's in the Balkans where European governments were more than willing to ignore. And Spain was a dictatorship of brutality and oppression well into the 70s was it not? But this is a European progress Europeans pretend doesn't exist as they unfairly bash away at a nation across the ocean that long placed genocide in the rear view mirror.

    Your intentional use of "young nation" is clinical proof of the resentment held by Europeans who can't cope with the fact that your historical powers have been reduced to nothing in the face of usurpers across the sea largely through your own behaviors. Grow up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    What I'm going to incredulously question you on is how exactly you think the Americans "voluntarily chose to face the moral consequences of genocide". America has done nothing of the sort, apart from a mere pittance of money given to the American Indians still living on reservations for "past crimes" -- America would sooner balk than admit it was the perpetrator of a continent-wide genocide.
    America has faced, admitted, and facilitated apologies on many levels to native Americans. It can not bring back the dead. What has Europe done about it's long history of ethnic cleansings and genocides throughout history? America's one inherited genocide on the American frontier equals the countless genocides across Europe throughout history? To you this is sound, because Europeans have a psycological need to alleviate guilt and cultural shame. To answer your question, it was America that fought a Civil War to free slaves and America that identified what it had done to the native American long after Europeans set the pace of genocide (prior to 1774). Come the twentieth century, it was America that had to come across the ocean to make Europe face it's own genocides during WWII and again in the 90s in the Balkans. Could you not do this on your own? History suggests a definate no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Furthermore, in no way did the Americans come over to Europe to "force Europeans to face" our own moral failings with the genocides we've committed -- it's prepostrous. The Americans weren't liberators or saviours or heroes, as much as Hollywood would like to re-write history as such -- no, the Americans were, on the grand scale of World War II, a bunch of pragmatic cowards who stayed out of the war as long as they could, and then only joined in on the side they knew would win already due to the sacrifices of greater nations.
    Typical European. Paying attention Bub? He and Pete represent your kind......

    It's your education systems that have been long seeking to rewrite history in a fashion that leaves you with a sense of dignity. In the end, it was American forces that had to come across the ocean, after fighting it's own war in the Pacific, to engineer Normandy. After fighting the Japanses largely all alone, Americans had to come to your pathetic aids because you weren't strong enough or culturaly savvy enough to preserve yourselves. It was America that facilitated the counterattack after the British had been kicked off the continent (France was nothing and Spain was a non-player). It was America that got sucked into what was your business to handle but proven incapable to handle. It was American oil that provided the bulk of resources to aid the allies. In the end, German engineered genocide was put to the rest because America decided to be a player in your unearned liberations (which Russia now receives aaaaaaaal the credit).

    Is this where European education has evolved to now? What say you Pete? Seeking America as the coward in history? Pathetic. Your'e just embarrassed that you can never solve your own self induced crisis without us. Even WWI needed an American engineered Bellaeu Wood to save Paris and turn that first European civil war around. And the Cold War? Good luck without American power. In the end, you wish to call us cowards for showing up late as if we are responsible for you. Then you boldly label us as "young" as if we don't matter. You very much appear to have emotional problems of identity (wannabe Soviet) while seeking to blast America no matter what. In the end, Germany was the power in Europe. It would have been far less deadlier to Americans to simple shake German hands rather than liberating the defeated French, bruised out British and what ever else was in the underground. A Cold War would have been far easier too with an allied Nazi Germany taking the heat from the Soviet Union.

    Congratulations Pete. Your hunger to blast all things American has you celebrating stupidity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Where, in that, do you see America showing the Europeans the 'wrongness of their ways'?
    It's not about showing you anything. It's about having to be involved in your messes. Were you involved with our Civil War or Civil Rights or dealing with Native American genocides, which were rooted in European engineering in the 17th century? Nope. Americans tackled these things within their own society without outsider help. Can European ever say the same thing with both World Wars, a Cold War and the "Yugoslavian" event proving otherwise?


    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    As I recall, only a few short years later, the Americans were committing their own war crimes in Korea, and then committing full-on napalm-style genocide in Vietnam.
    Hardly war crimes. In the mean time, the French were torturing hundreds of thousands of Algerians publicly (no punishments handed out). But this is what Europeans like you do isn't it? Seek any American imperfection to make themselves feel better about a complete absurdity in their history as if it soothes the guilt. Hell, a few waterboard events against probable terrorists makes European torture programs non-existent. Hundreds of thousands of tortured Algerians are washed away because a handful got waterboarded by Americans in 2005-ish.

    Here you actually sought the Korean War and Vietnam War (French origins by the way) to wash away Nazi Germany behavior. I guess the ovens and the 18 million slaughtered in Korea and Vietnam for their differences from "perfection" escaped the history books you've personally made for yourself (and apparently Pete EU).

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Oh, yes, those upstanding Americans surely hold the high-ground over us measly, intolerant Europeans.
    We do. You people have proven to be more than capable of causing global crisis and not capable of dealing with them in the end without us. We have not needed you. It's you that have eventually grovelled for support and aid. You call us cowards for showing up late? I call you inept and completely proven to be incapable of handling your own instigated affairs. Even today's economic crisis is beyond European capability because you all leach so strongly to American table scraps for support and growth. In one breath you accuse us of being the "world policemen" and then accuse of cowards for not poking our noses into your affairs before you'ev obliterated any chance of self preservation. Your kind are pathetic. So deep in your denials of self identity you cling to fantasy and stupidity for your own sense of fabricated dignity and pride.

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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Ahh your usual crap. First off European history is longer than 100 years.. I know as an American that can be mindblowing that a nation has a history longer than 250 years, but that is a fact. Secondly, when the two world wars came about, religion had been thrown to the side and it was as you said "tribes" as in nations fighting each other. However, long before those wars, there was over 1000 years (yea mind blowing I know!) of history where wars were fought based on tribe/country and more than often with a religious aspect. And in almost every war, both sides used "God" as a motivation factor and often reasoning to smite their enemies. Add to that many civil wars between Christian sects... the English civil war and so on.
    I'm not sure what your argument is. Your attempt to insult merely proves your depraved intellect. You seem to be agreeing that Europe is a tribal region, not religious. Religious wars in Europe had always been divided between borders of tribes. You seek smaller conflicts to settle your sense of religious wars. But in the end, the greater bloodshed has always been between Catholic states and Protestant states and this was determined by tribe. By the time of Europe's World Wars, tribe continued on in it's historical fashion without the need to blame it on Christianity. Like I stated, you people are merely the Middle East Lite.

    People associate religion far too often to escape the truth that the utlimate culprit lies upon tribal identity. Even Islam does this. Wave off the mask of ISlam, and what you find is a Sunni Tribe above all else.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    I never claimed Islam was perfect, but I did claim that while Christian Europe was in its Dark Ages, the Islamic world had its golden age where all major religions were welcome and treated with respect and often treated as equals. Did that last? Of course not, and I never claimed it did. When Christianity started its reformation, the Islamic world was in total free fall from internal conflicts and of course from attacks by radical Christians during the crusades.
    Oh I never claimed that you claimed it was perfect. But your implications was that Christianity was far worse than Islam. You are wrong. It was that Arab Islamic empire that exploded out of the desert ot topple empires of non-Islamic faith (Persia and Byzantine). It was Islamic law that facilitated Arabs to designate that slaves were to be identified as black Africans for the Arab Slave Trade, which facilitated Europe's idea of the African for the Atlantic Slave Trade. It was Arabs that tolerated Christians and Jews as long as they behaved in accordance to oppressive laws under their roofs. It was a French relative of Charlemagne that halted the Islamic invasion into France from the Spanish Moors as they slaughtered Chrisitians and Jews not yet consumed under their roofs. It was Polish King who halted Islamic Ottomans from their continual slaughter of non-Islamic people in Vienna. It was the French that finally decided that selling out the continent was not in their ultimate best interests any longer and faced Ottoman attacks upon Chrisitian towns in the east. And all along their history, Muslims have and continued to slaughter far more Muslims than anybody outside the religion has ever done.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yes, but it is better than being forced to convert like in the Christian world.
    More of a European problem than a Christian one. But refusing to play in accordance to oppressive prescription meant excommunication from the community and eventually death for plenty.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Not really, depends on the time frame we are talking about. During the golden age.. no, after.. yes. Then again, when the oh so tolerant Christians took over former Muslim areas of Europe, these oh so tolerant Christians did what to the mosques.. oh yea, tor them down or defaced them by planting a church in the middle.. ahh the tolerance.... ever heard of the Great Mosque of Cordoba?
    No...REALLY! You, I assume, are referring to a period within midieval Spain before the Inquisitions. There is wonderful book called the "Ornament of the World" that produces great knowledge on the matter (after the Golden Age, you are correct). This is what is known as an exception to the rule. Churches and Synagogues across the Islamic world were (and are) not allowed to rise above the heighth of a Mosque. If they were discovered to be higher after a conquest, they were torn down and defaced. Likewise were any referrences to God, because Sunni Muslims do not believe in idols of any kind, which is one of the aspects that places them at odds with the Shia. Pretending this was a one way act is dishonest. I believe you know enough about some of this history to know better than to make an argument otherwise.

    But referring back to the example of Spain, those were hardly original Arabs. They were largely northern African Moors and their caliphate was in competition with an Arab caliphate in Baghdad, which did not seek to create any kind of equality between Sunni Muslims and anybody else.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Again, so what? It is still better than being forced converted or driven out of your home or killed because you have the wrong religion... where did that happen.. oh yea in Christian Europe. Just ask the Jews..
    Well, see...this is my point and this is why "so what." Germany hardly needed Christian scripture to rally hate for Jews. The biggest display of hatred in history, which facilitated the greatest display of human slaughter, did not need Christianity to furnish it. It was simply the same old European tribal motivation that sought to ethnically cleanse the outsiders in their midst that history has seen over and over inside Europe. Jews were always the scapegoat in Europe. Christianity was merely a masked excuse before Hitler proved it so.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post

    And this has to do with Islam anno 900 AD in what way? Do you know that as Christian you cant name your child how you want according to the Church right? My parents preacher denied my name until they proved that it was a family name going back 500 years.. go figure with all that tolerance. After all the preacher could not deny a name that was approved 500 years ago by one of his fellow holy men could he now..
    I have no idea what you are talking about. My reasong for bringing up Saudi Arabia today was to show how little things have changed within Islam. I do not know of any rules or laws within the Christian world that is professed to be sanctioned by government or church that restricts a parent from identifying history.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So what. Saudi Arabia is hardly the whole of Islam. 1.2+ billion Muslims and Saudi Arabia has at best about 30 million or so..



    And again, how is that different than anywhere else? Gays in America are held to different laws (some) than non gays.. how is that in any way different?
    Well, we're talking about religion, not social sexual awareness or equality. And Suaid Arabia funds an enormous amounts of Mosques outside their territory, which spreads the Sunni vision of Islam. This is more than something just to dismiss. You obviously have no problems declaring the evils of the Catholic Church during Europe's religious turmoil, but refuse to identify the Saudi Sunni and what they are causing in the name of religion? It's more than OK if you do. It's actually accurate.

    [QUOTE=PeteEU;1058946494]

    Yea, and again so what. US evangelicals are using their power to dictate homosexuality laws in Uganda... only international outrage prevented (so far) that the Evangelicals got their way and made homosexuality punishable by death. Catholic Church still allows witch burnings in Nigeria and so on and so on. Or the US funding abstinence programs over condom programs to stem AIDS in Africa..same thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Again, that is Islam of today, not Islam of 1000+ years ago.
    Um, yes. It is the Islam of 1000+ years ago. Islam began as a colonial power as it sucked the cultures of others into it and forced a twist or Sunni loyalty upon it. The Islamic explosion during the "Rightly Guided Caliphates" was about consuming the infidel world into the empire no matter the consequences. Bakr (the first caliphate after Muhammad's death) instigated immediate wars with the Persian empire and the Byzantine empire. The next two caliphs fought wars against the Islamic Shia to protect the Sunni Arab empire and its ideals of Islam. This means that Islam's roots placed it at odds with Chrisitians, non-Muslims, and non-Sunni Arabs. The thousand years that followed as it consumed territories as far as Spain (your territory), Poland, and eastern Asia was about colonialism and dominance as it spread the Sunni vision of Islam. This is why I believe that many of today's adherents of Islam are merely unwittingly pledging allegiance to a certain tribe rather than God.

    Of course, we just like to self-flagilate over "Western Imperialism," which later merely sought to take back lost land.

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