View Poll Results: The Worst Genocidal Murderer in History

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  • Adolf Hitler

    16 18.39%
  • Andrew Jackson

    0 0%
  • Hernan Cortes

    1 1.15%
  • Josef Stalin

    33 37.93%
  • Mao Zedong

    24 27.59%
  • Genghis Khan

    8 9.20%
  • Nero

    2 2.30%
  • Emperor Hirohito

    0 0%
  • Tamerlane

    3 3.45%
  • Maximilien Robespierre

    0 0%
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Thread: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

  1. #141
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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    our peoples' lives were far more valuable than that of the enemy who not only started the war but who engaged in massive war crimes-

    That Hirohito was not strung up is a travesty


    Maybe I screwed up in my history somewhere, but I thought "Hirohito" was the emperor of Japan at the time, right?

    Wasn't he more or less a puppet, for a time?

    I thought the various military leaders were in defacto controll during at least a portion of the war.
    Education.

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  2. #142
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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post


    Maybe I screwed up in my history somewhere, but I thought "Hirohito" was the emperor of Japan at the time, right?

    Wasn't he more or less a puppet, for a time?

    I thought the various military leaders were in defacto controll during at least a portion of the war.

    co-conspirator-he used his throne and "divinity" to help the junta

    he should have been executed.



  3. #143
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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    co-conspirator-he used his throne and "divinity" to help the junta

    he should have been executed.
    Hmm, I got the impression that the "junta" used him, his throne, and "divinity", to help themselves...but perhaps I was partially misinformed.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  4. #144
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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Hmm, I got the impression that the "junta" used him, his throne, and "divinity", to help themselves...but perhaps I was partially misinformed.
    maybe they did. just as Hitler and a few used lots of people under them

    I was just following orders didn't save them

    Hirohito was a pawn but there is no evidence he wasn't willing and given the way the populace idolized him, he had a powerful weapon to oppose Tojo et all if he wanted to-rather he was their lapdog. he should have done the rope dance



  5. #145
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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    bah will write something in a second
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 10-15-10 at 12:54 AM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  6. #146
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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau
    It has always annoyed me a bit that every few years, Stalin's murder count mysteriously goes up a few million. It's always struck me as a kind of revisionist history shyness -- as though the guys who want to badmouth Stalin are peeking their heads out and saying, "Uh, the KGB is really gone, then, is it?"

    Stalin was a mass murdering bastard, who defaced the name of the Soviet Union and all it stood for. Stalin's true heinous crimes are enough to send him to the lowest circle of hell -- to go crashing through the floor of it, in fact. Why do you need to falsify the facts? Why dishonour the millions that did die due to him by claiming every year or every textbook edition a larger number?

    The number of people that Stalin killed, as a direct result of his policies, initiatives, or planned inactions, is somewhere from 9-13 million people. An unfathomable amount. A disgusting amount. Don't ramp it up to 15 million, or to 20, or 30, or 40, as there's no point in doing so -- nobody's sitting around saying "Oh! Well, if it was only TEN million sentient beings, and not 20, then I guess he wasn't such a bad guy after all."

    Or, perhaps I've jumped down your throat too soon, and the mistake was accidental -- I see a lot of people confusing the number of Soviet dead in World War II with the number of Soviet dead from Stalin's purges. Two entirely different things, though, sadly, two similarly astronomical numbers.
    As a Trotskyist I find this liberal interpretation of history pretty off-putting. Stalin wasn't "responsible" for any killings, on his own. Stalin was a cog in a massive state bureaucracy that implemented policies that led to the deaths of millions. Putting it all solely at the feet of Stalin is distorting what actually happened and giving Stalin some kind of supervillian status. It's just silly. It also is revisionist in the sense that it opens up the doors for the "communism causes Stalin" argument put forward in the Black Book and by many conservative lemmings on this site. That's just not true. The development of the Soviet bureacuracy is incredibly complex and to dumb it down to "Stalin killed xyz" is ridiculous.

    The deaths were due to the bureaucracy itself, not simply Stalin. The implementation of the demands of the populace by the bureaucracy was impossible because of the isolation of the bureaucracy from the population as a whole; this led to famine. The enactment of political laws and a justice system was destroyed by corruption and internal quarreling; this led to political persecution, unfair punishment, unjust executions and further famine in the camps.

    The political movements of the bureaucracy were completely blind and contradictory, going from the support of an NEP-type policy to collectivism and then setting ridiculous production quotas for propaganda purposes. The requisition of grain was carried out in a manner that contributed to famine was due to police/NKVD corruption, a disconnect in the line of communication between the bureaucracy and the producers, the propaganda efforts of the bureaucrats to meet quota, and other consequences.

    I could go on endlessly about this. Don't simply lay it at Stalin's feet because that's distorting history and letting the bureaucracy that is responsible for the deaths get off scot free.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  7. #147
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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    actually, most people who actually understand the issue note that we would have killed over a million japanese civilians with an invasion
    The operative phrase there is 'with an invasion'. Why was an invasion necesssry? After destroying the Japanese fleet, it would have been easy to blockaide Japan. Put a fence around it and call it a prison.

    if you think nuking a hostile country that committed massive acts of atrocities as well as using diplomacy as a veil to murder more than a thousand US servicemen during peacetime is the same as the mass murders Hitler and Stalin committed agains their own people,
    So you think intentional mass killing of civilians is proper conduct in war. If using nukes was such a rightous act, why hasn't the USA used them since? Wouldn't nuking NK, NV, etc have saved many USA soldiers also?


    I will just write you off as another self loathing American.
    Does one have to be a USA citizen to be a 'self loathing American'?

  8. #148
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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Why isn't George W Bush listed?

  9. #149
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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Nobody remembers Armenia (??)

  10. #150
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    Re: Worst Genocidal Mass-Murderer In History

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    As a Trotskyist I find this liberal interpretation of history pretty off-putting. Stalin wasn't "responsible" for any killings, on his own. Stalin was a cog in a massive state bureaucracy that implemented policies that led to the deaths of millions.
    Who created/approved the policies?

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