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Thread: "Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots" article about 'GZ Mosque'... Do you agree?

  1. #71
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    Re: "Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots" article about 'GZ Mosque'... Do you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Iraq invaded Kuwait on charges of stealing Iraqi oil via slant drilling. Then 8 days before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait,
    Thanks for the Baathist propaganda lesson.

    the US Ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie - in response to a complaint from Saddam about Kuwaiti actions against Iraq - told him: "we have no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait. Secretary of State James Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America."
    That quote comes directly from the Baathist transcript of the meeting, and is completely out of context, saying that we don't take sides in Arab border disputes is not an endorsement of the annexation of Kuwait. And even if that quote were not taken completely out of context, after the annexation of Kuwait, Saddam was granted ample opportunity to withdrawal his forces.

    In April 1991 Glaspie testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. She said that at the July 25 meeting she had "repeatedly warned Iraqi President Saddam Hussein against using force to settle his dispute with Kuwait." She also said that Saddam had lied to her by denying he would invade Kuwait. Asked to explain how Saddam could have interpreted her comments as implying U.S. approval for the invasion of Kuwait, she replied: "We foolishly did not realize he [Saddam] was stupid." In July 1991 State Department spokesperson Richard Boucher said at a press briefing:

    “ We have faith in Ambassador Glaspie's reporting. She sent us cables on her meetings based on notes that were made after the meeting. She also provided five hours or more of testimony in front of the Committee about the series of meetings that she had, including this meeting with Saddam Hussein.


    The cables that Glaspie sent from Iraq about her meeting with Saddam are no longer classified.[4] Glaspie's cable on her meeting with Saddam reports that President George H.W. Bush "had instructed her to broaden and deepen our relations with Iraq." Saddam, in turn, offered "warm greetings" to Bush and was "surely sincere" about not wanting war, the cable said.[5]

    Glaspie herself for years remained silent on the subject of her actions in Iraq. But in March 2008 she gave an interview to the Lebanese newspaper Dar Al-Hayat.[6] In the interview, she said she has no regrets. "It is over," Glaspie said. "Nobody wants to take the blame. I am quite happy to take the blame. Perhaps I was not able to make Saddam Hussein believe that we would do what we said we would do, but in all honesty, I don't think anybody in the world could have persuaded him."

    In the interview, Glaspie recalled that her meeting with Saddam was interrupted when the Iraqi president received a phone call from Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. Saddam told her he had assured Mubarak that he would try to settle the dispute, she said. Her cable backs up this version of events; the Iraqi transcript, prepared by Saddam's official English language translator, Sadoun al-Zubaydi, records Saddam saying that Mubarak called before he met with Glaspie.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie
    So most of it could have been resolved with proper diplomacy first. Maybe saying instead something like "The United States would have very negative opinions of open hostilities and depending on the situation; may have to get involved should open hostilities develop".

    After the annexation Saddam was told point blank get out or it means war.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 08-25-10 at 02:05 PM.

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    Re: "Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots" article about 'GZ Mosque'... Do you agree?

    I mean, it's not a propaganda lesson, it's what happened. And BTW, who do you think helped put the Baathists in power in the first place? A party which was hostile towards Iran, a country we were having lots of problems with at the time? You can say one thing or the other; but history is as history is. Fact of the matter is that there were charges of slant drilling, there was some lack of diligence on behalf of our ambassador. Sure, after the annexation we looked at the situation and said we couldn't sit idly by and let this happen; we got involved militarily at that point. But there were things which could have been handled better leading up to it. Maybe, just maybe, could have avoided the mess in the first place.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: "Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots" article about 'GZ Mosque'... Do you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncola View Post
    Blah, blah blah. A bigot is a bigot is a bigot. Teabaggers are just the loudest bigots. Same freakin' crowd that demands that their "Constitutional rights" be sacrosanct are the first to walk on those of people they are PREJUDICED against.

    Tyranny by the majority remains tyranny.
    Bigotry of course meaning ignorant ****s judging the whole based on what they perceive from the actions of the few...hmmm...
    Last edited by VanceMack; 08-25-10 at 02:19 PM.

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    Re: "Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots" article about 'GZ Mosque'... Do you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncola View Post
    So what? That makes ignoring the Constitution ok? Selective outrage is a wonderful thing, eh?
    Quick...show where ANYONE has suggested ignoring the constitution. Show me where anyone has done anything more than voiced disagreement with the location of the mosque. I'll wait...Im sure you have it right there at your fingertips.

  5. #75
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    Re: "Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots" article about 'GZ Mosque'... Do you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    And that isn't happening. If anyone is rationalizing it's you. Your saying to yourself that it's okay to stop religious freedom because "all muslims are terrorist, and it's a shrine to terror" Give me a break

    Are churches ever denied building permits, at a particular location? You bet they are... every time it happens, is it "stopping religious freedom"?

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    Re: "Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots" article about 'GZ Mosque'... Do you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Oh believe me Im looking forward to another retarded War on Christmas by the retards on the religious right. I wonder if Ill be able to break my record of kicking out people who go ape when my employees dont wish someone a Merry Christmas.
    Should be great for business. Have fun with that! That happens a lot though? Riiiiight...because I see that everywhere I go...people just absolutely freaking out because someone DOESNT wish them Merry Christmas.

    Bull****.

  7. #77
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    Re: "Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots" article about 'GZ Mosque'... Do you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I mean, it's not a propaganda lesson, it's what happened.
    And the charges were false they were propaganda used to justify the illegal annexation of Kuwait.

    CONFRONTATION IN THE GULF - CONFRONTATION IN THE GULF - The Oilfield Lying Below the Iraq-Kuwait Dispute - NYTimes.com

    Even the Iraqi-Kuwait oil price war had been settled prior to the annexation in the Iraqi's favor:

    Iraq Said to Prevail in Oil Dispute With Kuwait and Arab Emirates - NYTimes.com

    And BTW, who do you think helped put the Baathists in power in the first place?
    I've heard these accusations before, and the only evidence I've seen is the CIA giving the names of suspected communists to the Baath party after the coup, I have seen 0 evidence of U.S. funding or arms being granted to the Baath party. In fact Saddam got the vast bulk of his foreign weapons from the Soviet Union not the United States, who only supplied Saddam with appx. .5% of his total foreign weapons mainly consisting of dual use items; such as, bulldozers and helicopters retrofitted after the fact for military use. During the Cold War Iraq was clearly in the Soviet camp.

    A party which was hostile towards Iran, a country we were having lots of problems with at the time?
    WTF are you talking about? The Baathists came to power in 1963 before the Shah was overthrown by the Iranian revolution and a decade after Mossadeq was ousted by the Shah's counter-coup. And the Shah and Saddam actually had warm relations and the U.S. certainly had warm relations with the Shah.

    You can say one thing or the other; but history is as history is.
    And you obviously don't know a lot about history.

    Fact of the matter is that there were charges of slant drilling,
    False charges to justify an illegal invasion like the assertions that Poland had actually attackd Germany in 1939.

    there was some lack of diligence on behalf of our ambassador. Sure, after the annexation we looked at the situation and said we couldn't sit idly by and let this happen; we got involved militarily at that point. But there were things which could have been handled better leading up to it. Maybe, just maybe, could have avoided the mess in the first place.
    We didn't immediately go to war, we gave Saddam EVERY opportunity to withdrawal his forces and to avoid war. The guilt for the Iraqi annexation of Kuwait and the subsequent Gulf War rests with Saddam Hussein and his regime and no one else.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 08-25-10 at 02:27 PM.

  8. #78
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    Re: "Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots" article about 'GZ Mosque'... Do you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    It goes towards motivation, if there is not a pressing need for another Mosque then why build it?
    Because they want to. That's reason enough.

    Given the words of this Imam I think the motivations are clear IE to give the proverbial **** you to the American people.
    Apparently their motivations are not as clear as you think they are, since plenty of individuals see the issue differently. You see it as an insult, others see it as an opportunity and others could care less.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: "Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots" article about 'GZ Mosque'... Do you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Quick...show where ANYONE has suggested ignoring the constitution. Show me where anyone has done anything more than voiced disagreement with the location of the mosque. I'll wait...Im sure you have it right there at your fingertips.
    You didn't pay attention the first hundred times you've been shown. Why bother?

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    Re: "Ron Paul to Sunshine Patriots" article about 'GZ Mosque'... Do you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Because they want to. That's reason enough.


    Apparently their motivations are not as clear as you think they are, since plenty of individuals see the issue differently. You see it as an insult, others see it as an opportunity and others could care less.
    We who see it for what it is have the right to exercise our freedom of speech to protest this slap in the face from an overt Islamist and encourage others to exercise their right of self ownership not to trade their labour for the capital of this Islamist. By accusing all those opposed to actions of this specific Iman of demagoguery for exercising the same rights as the Islamist that he defends proves Paul for the hypocrite that he is.

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