View Poll Results: Is Islam as a religion evil/a religion of war?

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  • Yes

    113 59.16%
  • No

    78 40.84%
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Thread: Is Islam evil/a religion of war?

  1. #51
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    Re: Is Islam evil/a religion of war?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    I'm shocked at the results of this poll...truly. WHY are you shocked? Forget the fact that those who view Islam as an evil religion is deeply mistaken to begin with,Obviously it is their personal opinion why should their opinion be any less accepted than yours? but thinking realistically, that couldn't be possible. Islam has 1.5 billion followers. If this religion truly was evil, and truly was dedicated to war and expansionism, we wouldn't be here right now.And yet we are here right now.
    Certainly a significant percentage of adherents of other religions look upon Islam as an evil religion, what has Islam done or even attempted to do that would cause them to change their opinion?

  2. #52
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    Re: Is Islam evil/a religion of war?

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Certainly a significant percentage of adherents of other religions look upon Islam as an evil religion, what has Islam done or even attempted to do that would cause them to change their opinion?
    Islam doesn't have to do anything. You seem to think the majority are extremists when in fact the complete opposite is true. They work and live in the West, and contribute to society. A loud minority shouldn't shroud out the others. They live and work peacefully and look after there own, as do you. What do you want them to do? Top Islamic clerics gathered in Mardin and released a fatwa saying terrorism is a violation of Islamic principles. If they don't want to listen, it doesn't make Islam an evil religion, and nobody owes YOU an explanation.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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  3. #53
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    Re: Is Islam evil/a religion of war?

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Certainly a significant percentage of adherents of other religions look upon Islam as an evil religion, what has Islam done or even attempted to do that would cause them to change their opinion?
    The point is that people looking upon Islam as evil are doing it out of ignorance and/or because that is what they have heard and now falsely believe. "Islam" doesn't have to do anything regarding the ignorance of others... that being said, after 911 many Muslims did come forward and denounce war and the acts as horrible, but the news barely glanced in their direction. My opinion, because peace loving Muslims doesn't sell.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Is Islam evil/a religion of war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The point is that people looking upon Islam as evil are doing it out of ignorance and/or because that is what they have heard and now falsely believe. "Islam" doesn't have to do anything regarding the ignorance of others... that being said, after 911 many Muslims did come forward and denounce war and the acts as horrible, but the news barely glanced in their direction. My opinion, because peace loving Muslims doesn't sell.
    No more so than the US if thats what your worried about.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

  5. #55
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    Re: Is Islam evil/a religion of war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Look, we are talking about the religion of Christianity, not just the teachings of Jesus. Christians follow the Bible, all of it. When I was going to church, the Pastor would refer to New and Old Testament. If you want to change your argument, that is fine, but making such a silly change in the debate is ridiculous and the only one looking foolish is you.
    The teachings of Jesus are the central defining element of Christianity. That the Roman Empire included the Old Testament in the Bible is quite meaningless in this respect. In respect to the religious condition of Christianity it is the teachings of Christ that are paramount. Certainly what happened in the Old Testament is completely irrelevant to how Christians should behave in the modern age. Things like "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" completely negate everything taught in the Old Testament and that is because in Christianity Christ is giving a new message or new testament that negates the old one.

    Right… then debate it. Like the hatred debate and the punitive parenting argument that you had, your opinion means nothing.
    I have been debating it, indeed in all those cases I debated and provided proof substantiating my position. Here I have already reiterated several times that the first three Crusades were purely defensive wars. The first was a response to Muslim attacks on the Byzantines, the second a response to attacks on the Crusader states establish during the first, and the third was also of a similar nature. People have sought to abuse the Crusades in pursuance of an irreligious agenda, but the truth is from any perspective it was not about religion, but defending against hostile powers.

    Further, if the Muslims conquered Jerusalem for religious reasons and the Christians invaded to get the city back for religious reasons, then the Crusades were religious.
    No doubt after the Crusades began certain targets were pursued out of religious significance, but even then it was much more about building a defense against the Muslim invaders. This also took place in the context of the Reconquista, a centuries-long campaign to recapture the Iberian peninsula from the Muslim Moorish invaders.

    Of course it makes sense. Ancestry is irrelevant. The reason that Central and South America is Catholic is because the Spanish Catholics conquered the Americas and forced their religion on the natives.
    No doubt they did force their religion on the natives, but the fact most intermarried or most countries from those territories are of dominantly Spanish origin means it would have happened regardless. Many dominantly Muslim countries do not have a similar demographic story in that most are still dominantly descendants of the original inhabitants with little Arabic ancestry.

    Well said… if the people are not evil or dedicated to war, then it isn’t a religion of war.
    The people who practice a religion do not define its tenets they define themselves. Muslims do not define Islam nor does Islam define Muslims. They are two separate and distinct things. Islam can be a religion of war even if Muslims are a people of peace.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
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  6. #56
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    Re: Is Islam evil/a religion of war?

    Originally Posted by Kaya’08
    No more so than the US if thats what your worried about.
    I don’t understand what you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    The teachings of Jesus are the central defining element of Christianity. That the Roman Empire included the Old Testament in the Bible is quite meaningless in this respect. In respect to the religious condition of Christianity it is the teachings of Christ that are paramount. Certainly what happened in the Old Testament is completely irrelevant to how Christians should behave in the modern age. Things like "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" completely negate everything taught in the Old Testament and that is because in Christianity Christ is giving a new message or new testament that negates the old one.
    Ummm… sooooo, in your opinion, the Old Testament has nothing to do with Christianity; yet both the Old and New Testaments are taught in Christianity and the Bible represents the teachings of Christianity…?

    Bible
    the collection of sacred writings of the Christian religion, comprising the Old and New Testaments.

    Bible | Define Bible at Dictionary.com

    I have been debating it, indeed in all those cases I debated and provided proof substantiating my position. Here I have already reiterated several times that the first three Crusades were purely defensive wars. The first was a response to Muslim attacks on the Byzantines, the second a response to attacks on the Crusader states establish during the first, and the third was also of a similar nature. People have sought to abuse the Crusades in pursuance of an irreligious agenda, but the truth is from any perspective it was not about religion, but defending against hostile powers.
    No you didn’t. You simply said that I was basing my decision off of hatred in one and that I was a parent that used punitive parenting in the other. In both instances you just gave your opinion, and when called on it you either stopped debating or just repeated yourself. Sorry…

    The defensive war stance is irrelevant since the Crusades were a religious war. Even the name Crusade denotes religion. I gave source material that specifically state that fact and you are… again, giving your opinion.

    No doubt after the Crusades began certain targets were pursued out of religious significance, but even then it was much more about building a defense against the Muslim invaders. This also took place in the context of the Reconquista, a centuries-long campaign to recapture the Iberian peninsula from the Muslim Moorish invaders.
    The Crusades began with religious significance, as I already pointed out.

    No doubt they did force their religion on the natives, but the fact most intermarried or most countries from those territories are of dominantly Spanish origin means it would have happened regardless. Many dominantly Muslim countries do not have a similar demographic story in that most are still dominantly descendants of the original inhabitants with little Arabic ancestry.
    The idea of intermarriage isn’t relevant to the fact that the Spanish imposed their religion on the Natives. How about giving us some source material?

    The people who practice a religion do not define its tenets they define themselves. Muslims do not define Islam nor does Islam define Muslims. They are two separate and distinct things. Islam can be a religion of war even if Muslims are a people of peace.
    Of course they are two separate things… but at the same time they are the same in that the religion is what the people want it to be. The religion is not stagnant.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Is Islam evil/a religion of war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Ummm… sooooo, in your opinion, the Old Testament has nothing to do with Christianity; yet both the Old and New Testaments are taught in Christianity and the Bible represents the teachings of Christianity…?
    You are confusing a sect of Christianity with Christianity. It was the Roman Catholic Church that decided to include these other teachings and it just so happens most major sects emerged from that one. The Old Testament really just presents information that might be of interest, rather than something that should be taken to heart. Parts after the Gospels can be taken with as much validity as sermons by countless preachers in history. Jesus Christ is the central figure of Christianity and the final word on its tenets, just like Muhammad is for Muslims.

    No you didn’t. You simply said that I was basing my decision off of hatred in one and that I was a parent that used punitive parenting in the other. In both instances you just gave your opinion, and when called on it you either stopped debating or just repeated yourself. Sorry…
    Actually, I just know a fruitless debate when I see one.

    The defensive war stance is irrelevant since the Crusades were a religious war. Even the name Crusade denotes religion. I gave source material that specifically state that fact and you are… again, giving your opinion.
    There is nothing opinionated about what I am saying. I am describing to you the actual sequence of events that led to the Crusades and you apparently think that the dictionary is a more comprehensive source than the history books.

    The Crusades began with religious significance, as I already pointed out.
    It was organized by the Vatican and draped in religion, but it was a response to Muslim aggression. The war was defensive in nature and not about attacking non-Christians to convert them.

    The idea of intermarriage isn’t relevant to the fact that the Spanish imposed their religion on the Natives.
    Actually the point is that these are mostly descendants of Christians.

    Of course they are two separate things… but at the same time they are the same in that the religion is what the people want it to be. The religion is not stagnant.
    The religion is not what the people want it to be and that is just an absurd concept. Muslims who believe in peace and tolerance are simply not fully practicing Muslims. How many Muslims actually pray towards Mecca five times a day? What you are saying is like declaring that if most Jews wanted to eat shellfish it means Judaism no longer forbids it. That just plain isn't how it works.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  8. #58
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    Re: Is Islam evil/a religion of war?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Islam doesn't have to do anything. You seem to think the majority are extremists when in fact the complete opposite is true. They work and live in the West, and contribute to society. A loud minority shouldn't shroud out the others. They live and work peacefully and look after there own, as do you. What do you want them to do? Top Islamic clerics gathered in Mardin and released a fatwa saying terrorism is a violation of Islamic principles. If they don't want to listen, it doesn't make Islam an evil religion, and nobody owes YOU an explanation.
    Quote( it doesn't make Islam an evil religion,) I have not said that Islam is an evil religion, I have not even intimated this.
    I have said that it's adherents are as the adherents are of any religion evil people, this is my opinion which i am entitled to have and broadcast.
    Quote( and nobody owes YOU an explanation.) I have not asked for an explanation, but when I wanted one I received it as a quote direct from the Koran. I would wish that you watch and listen to this in it's entirety YouTube - Of Mosques and Men: Reflections on the Ground Zero Mosque

  9. #59
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    Re: Is Islam evil/a religion of war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Actually, I just know a fruitless debate when I see one.
    I don't think that you do, actually... I do though, and your continuing misinterpretations of historical context and your misrepresentation my parenting has left me disinterested in debating further... ultimately, I can't get past your denial of how badly you understand the concept of hatred. It's just kinda one of those WOW things.
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  10. #60
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    Re: Is Islam evil/a religion of war?

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Quote( it doesn't make Islam an evil religion,) I have not said that Islam is an evil religion, I have not even intimated this.
    I have said that it's adherents are as the adherents are of any religion evil people, this is my opinion which i am entitled to have and broadcast.
    Quote( and nobody owes YOU an explanation.) I have not asked for an explanation, but when I wanted one I received it as a quote direct from the Koran. I would wish that you watch and listen to this in it's entirety YouTube - Of Mosques and Men: Reflections on the Ground Zero Mosque
    Could you just tell me instead i cba to watch the video.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
    > Good to be back, but I'm only visiting for a few weeks. <

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