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Thread: A tax credit for a product means no one wants to buy it

  1. #51
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    Re: A tax credit for a product means no one wants to buy it

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    The whole point of the tax credit is help the environment, reduce foreign oil dependency, and promote environmental responsibility in this country. This is a national security issue and also a national issue because of the impact on the environment. Many of you probably don't favor the Mideast region and don't want to be dependent on oil from there. This tax credit helps reduce foreign oil dependency.

    The free market is not a panacea, and does not care about the environment, only on maximizing profit. If it wasn't for regulation and the government, many of the products you use would contain lead, carcinogens, and other harmful chemicals. Companies would not bother to regulate their environmental impact and safety of their products because that costs money, and they could just hide or conceal any dangers from the consumer.

    This tax break is not picking and choosing companies, its not picking LG over Mitsubishi, its treating all companies the same and its saying that this product will further our national interests than current products.

    Again, many of you knock governmental regulation, but you enjoy the benefits of their protections, such as minimal acid rain and breathing relatively clean air with less SO2, CO, NO, and NO2. If catalytic converters weren't required by the government, car companies would probably not include them because they add to the cost. I doubt people would be environmentally conscious and purchase cars with catalytic converters too if they added to the cost.
    I am a former nuke operator/Instrument tech/metrology tech, and can agree with Scarecrow and Opteron both, depending on points.
    The free market SHOULD be the deciding factor on business decisions, but they still bear watching. When faced with the expense of disposing of waste products, it just seems to be too hard for too many businesses to dump their wastes in an environmentally safe manner. Speaking of golf carts, there is a business near my AZ home that routinely dumps battery acid right in plain sight. Anyone driving by can see the stained ground. That is blatant, and the guy should be jailed. But when I attempted to report it, I found the local agencies uninterested in such a small "spill". Seems there wasn't much money to be made from it. Years ago I saw a guy burning oil drained from transformers, he was recycling the metals and the oil was in his way. So he just poured it all in a barrel and burned it, in plain site of the freeway exit going into the center of Idaho Falls, Idaho. Don't know if there were PCB's in the oil or not, but again, try finding a govt agency that cares to do their job. So on the one hand we have those who don't mind polluting, and on the other hand we have govt that won't leave the comfort of their offices to look into dumping of hazardous wastes.
    There needs to be serious prison time involved for those who would be so irresponsible.
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  2. #52
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    Re: A tax credit for a product means no one wants to buy it

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Rush Limbaugh said this recently:

    “However, you can get it for less — there's a $7,500 tax credit,” Limbaugh said with a sardonic tone on his Wednesday program. “Which means that Obama and the government are admitting that nobody wants this. Nobody wants it. We gotta give you a $7,500 discount. Why don't you try this, Mr. Obama, and the rest of you at Obama Motors: Just put it out there at 41 grand and let the market decide.”

    Let's ignore for the time being that the Tesla Roadster and the Fisker Karma both eligible for the credit have large backlogs are eligible for the credit.

    Do you agree that when the government offers a tax credit for a product, that means no one wants to buy it?
    Well - if it costs $41,000 and people are discouraged from buying it because of that - then that means, yes, people aren't buying it.

    But does that mean that people don't *want* to buy it? No - that just means that people *might* want to buy it but *can't* buy it because it's so damn expensive.

    Thus - give an incentive - and maybe some people who want to buy it but can't would likely be more interested.

    Rush, however, is saying that people don't *want* it - which isn't true . . .if people didn't *want* it then sales of various things wouldn't go *up* when these things are offered.

    Rush is an idiot, afterall, with only a radio-program to listen to whilst driving. (That's what happens when people don't *want* to listen to you flap your lips)
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 08-22-10 at 11:07 AM.
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  3. #53
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    Re: A tax credit for a product means no one wants to buy it

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Well - if it costs $41,000 and people are discouraged from buying it because of that - then that means, yes, people aren't buying it.

    But does that mean that people don't *want* to buy it? No - that just means that people *might* want to buy it but *can't* buy it because it's so damn expensive.

    Thus - give an incentive - and maybe some people who want to buy it but can't would likely be more interested.

    Rush, however, is saying that people don't *want* it - which isn't true . . .if people didn't *want* it then sales of various things wouldn't go *up* when these things are offered.

    Rush is an idiot, afterall, with only a radio-program to listen to whilst driving. (That's what happens when people don't *want* to listen to you flap your lips)
    It appears that the sporty electric cars will sell well, but the boxy ugly ones won't....so is this a subsidy that supports ugly?
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  4. #54
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    Re: A tax credit for a product means no one wants to buy it

    Quote Originally Posted by AxelAsdf View Post
    I say I'm libertarian because it makes the MOST sense to me, amongst popular political groups. Could you list some faults in the Libertarian foundation? I'm wondering what you mean by flaws.
    I guess maybe not so much flawed, but I believe libertarianism is not an optimal system. I am not an expert in libertarianism platform, but one thing is that libertarianism would result in monopolies in industry. A hands off approach would result in these monopolies who would then prevent competitors entering the market and also misuse their market power. Also, I'm not sure if environmental regulation is included in libertarianism, if its not, that would be a major detriment. Financial regulation is not included, and would probably result in excessive risk taking by financial companies. I don't agree with the isolationist foreign policy as well, but that one is debatable.

    Another example is credit card companies, in the free market without any regulation, they all had high rates, excessive rules against the consumer, they could raise your rates anytime and without reason. It took regulation to curb their abuses.

    There's some economic insight posted in this thread starting at page 24 and going to page 25.

  5. #55
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    Re: A tax credit for a product means no one wants to buy it

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Well - if it costs $41,000 and people are discouraged from buying it because of that - then that means, yes, people aren't buying it.

    But does that mean that people don't *want* to buy it? No - that just means that people *might* want to buy it but *can't* buy it because it's so damn expensive.
    If people AREN'T buying it at the offered price, then there's no DEMAND for the product at that price. While technically different than "not wanting it", the economic effect of not buying it is what's important.

    Thus - give an incentive - and maybe some people who want to buy it but can't would likely be more interested.
    Hello?

    It's not the government's job to give incentives to people to buy a product. If GM wants to give people incenttive to buy a car, then GM has to implement a rebate program or simply cut the price, and the GM sees a cut in the profits on the vehicle. If GM has to cut the price to below cost, so that they're giving the cars away, the stockholders should stop the production of that model car.

    This is called business.

    The government should not be giving a big corporation a taxpayer subsidy.

    Right, socialists?

  6. #56
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    Re: A tax credit for a product means no one wants to buy it

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    I guess maybe not so much flawed, but I believe libertarianism is not an optimal system. I am not an expert in libertarianism platform, but one thing is that libertarianism would result in monopolies in industry.
    Yes. You clearly haven't studied libertarianism.

    Free market systems cannot generate coercive monopolies. Only non-free markets with government power interfering can do that.

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    Re: A tax credit for a product means no one wants to buy it

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yes. You clearly haven't studied libertarianism.

    Free market systems cannot generate coercive monopolies. Only non-free markets with government power interfering can do that.
    Obviously, you have no idea what you're talking about and what libertarianism is because monopolies are generated many times in free markets. Go to the "Myths about Capitalism" thread and read up on all the ways you are wrong. Ever heard of the practice called "dumping"? Tell that to Andrew Carnegie and his steel monopoly.

  8. #58
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    Re: A tax credit for a product means no one wants to buy it

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    It appears that the sporty electric cars will sell well, but the boxy ugly ones won't....so is this a subsidy that supports ugly?
    LOL

    I'm still eyeing cost-issues, I loved the 80's so I could go boxy - but my 2006 GTO has some nice curves. LOL

    Overall, though, for me to get rid of my guzzler SUV which I have only 10 months left to pay on (which I'm intending ot hack that down to 6) They'd have to make something that costs me practically nothing.
    Which aint happening

    My 2 tanks of gas a month VS $500.00/monthly payment for a new vehicle for the next 6 years = obvious selfish interest being preserved.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    If people AREN'T buying it at the offered price, then there's no DEMAND for the product at that price. While technically different than "not wanting it", the economic effect of not buying it is what's important.



    Hello?

    It's not the government's job to give incentives to people to buy a product. If GM wants to give people incenttive to buy a car, then GM has to implement a rebate program or simply cut the price, and the GM sees a cut in the profits on the vehicle. If GM has to cut the price to below cost, so that they're giving the cars away, the stockholders should stop the production of that model car.

    This is called business.

    The government should not be giving a big corporation a taxpayer subsidy.

    Right, socialists?
    I definitely don't support the government doing what they've been doing - I agree with you on this. Such things should come *from* the company - not *from * the government and thusly *from* my taxes.

    But - a basic fact of business is that to boost sales on a product a coupon, discount, rebate or other incentive is maybe 90% effective.
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    Re: A tax credit for a product means no one wants to buy it

    Quote Originally Posted by Opteron View Post
    Obviously, you have no idea what you're talking about and what libertarianism is because monopolies are generated many times in free markets. Go to the "Myths about Capitalism" thread and read up on all the ways you are wrong. Ever heard of the practice called "dumping"? Tell that to Andrew Carnegie and his steel monopoly.
    If that makes you feel better, you have the freedom to believe that.

  10. #60
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    Re: A tax credit for a product means no one wants to buy it

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    LOL

    I'm still eyeing cost-issues, I loved the 80's so I could go boxy - but my 2006 GTO has some nice curves. LOL

    Overall, though, for me to get rid of my guzzler SUV which I have only 10 months left to pay on (which I'm intending ot hack that down to 6) They'd have to make something that costs me practically nothing.
    Which aint happening

    My 2 tanks of gas a month VS $500.00/monthly payment for a new vehicle for the next 6 years = obvious selfish interest being preserved.



    Back during the first oil embargo, my neighbors were trading in paid for "gas guzzlers" for little japanese cars. I tried to talk some of them out of it, to no avail. Where I screwed up, tho, was not buying some of those gas guzzlers. There were some really nice high performance cars going for cheap....
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