View Poll Results: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

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  • Politician

    12 19.05%
  • Businessman

    51 80.95%
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Thread: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

  1. #61
    Angry Former GOP Voter
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Tell me how starting wars, crushing civil liberties, excessive regulations for business is productive for society?



    Exactly
    Wars can help create economic booms as well as help create recessions and bring down the state. Wars can also allow the state to have access to natural resources previously unavailable or deplete resources. Crushing civil liberties, if it was necessary, keeps the state in order, or it can create a seemingly unjustified tyranny. Regulations on business can improve the working of the given industry, the workers, or it can bring about unintended consequences that are negative in nature. At any rate, productive merely means the development of a given result.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  2. #62
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    That's a nice way to conceal the general motive of which each occupation stands to survive. Politicians, through historical practice, care more about concentrating power in their own hands than they do about actually improving society. Businessmen care more about success and profit than they do your health and wellness, but somehow their greed ends up benefitting all of society.
    It is similarly easy to oversimplify the criteria that holds the businessman's attention, but I would not do so. For instance, you start with a negative and end with a positive with regard to businessmen, but hold back with the politician and do not mention the following: "but somehow their greed ends up benefitting all of society." Would not this also apply towards those who govern?
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 08-20-10 at 12:40 AM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  3. #63
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    You should read Hakim Bey. I'm not an anarchist, but I tend to be very skeptical of the idea of a complete chaos as a result of the diminishing of a state. Think about when you get together with your neighbors and have a BBQ. It's a communal practice that requires no governmental planning. The state, temporarily, does not exist in a neighborhood gathering and yet there is no chaos.
    I could give that author a try sometime soon, given time, of course. I suppose I am more Hobbesian than some Americans. However, when we plan a BBQ with neighbors, we still have the protection of three levels of government: the city, the state, and the federal government. When the stakes are higher, a contract, I believe would be most beneficial, which would delegate authority to some sort of body.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 08-20-10 at 12:47 AM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  4. #64
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    It is similarly easy to oversimplify the criteria that holds the businessman's attention, but I would not do so. For instance, you start with a negative and end with a positive with regard to businessmen, but hold back with the politician and do not mention the following: "but somehow their greed ends up benefitting all of society." Would not this also apply towards those who govern?
    That's the conundrum of the society in which we live. The more busybodies limit our individual freedom to right all the wrongs in life, the more life turns to ****. The ones committed to creating the greatest good through legislative acts is often the creator of the most hellish tyrannies on Earth. The businessman is an average individual intent on improving his life and the lives of those around him (his family and most intimate community). Yet, the greed of rational self-interest leads the entrepreneur to create new ideas and new ways of delivering this idea to the rest of society. And these ideas almost always improve the lives of everyone. As Adam Smith once wrote, "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we receive our dinner, but from their regard to their own interests."

  5. #65
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I could give that author a try sometime soon, given time, of course. I suppose I am more Hobbesian than some Americans. However, when we plan a BBQ with neighbors, we still have the protection of three levels of government: the city, the state, and the federal government. When the stakes are higher, a contract, I believe would be most beneficial, which would delegate authority to some sort of body.
    I do not deny, nor oppose the protection of liberties by government. I'm arguing that the government's laws have no bearing on our individual morality, and no government is needed to actually make our individual day-to-day decisions. We can do it on our own without government planning and in the absence of chaos.

  6. #66
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    But stop kidding yourself for a second and just recognize that society DOES, in fact, admire certain occupational positions over others.
    Nice strawman. you make it seem like I don't realize that society does this, when all I said is that I would need more detail to make the determination.

    I don't admire a certain occupation over another, especially not the one's being discussed. I judge people on their character.

    And your last paragraph has to be a joke! Selling poison to feed your children is admirable in your opinion? "Do whatever it takes for his kids?" How about robbing a liquor store? Is that admirable?
    Robbing a liquor store to feed your family when no other option exists? Yeah, I admire a person willing to do that in those situations.



    Like I said, I need more details before I can make the determination of which one is more admirable. Most politicans AND businessmen I've met in my life were douchebags.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  7. #67
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    That's the conundrum of the society in which we live. The more busybodies limit our individual freedom to right all the wrongs in life, the more life turns to ****. The ones committed to creating the greatest good through legislative acts is often the creator of the most hellish tyrannies on Earth. The businessman is an average individual intent on improving his life and the lives of those around him (his family and most intimate community). Yet, the greed of rational self-interest leads the entrepreneur to create new ideas and new ways of delivering this idea to the rest of society. And these ideas almost always improve the lives of everyone. As Adam Smith once wrote, "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we receive our dinner, but from their regard to their own interests."
    However, as I am quite sure you would acknowledge, greed on the part of the businessman could have dire consequences towards the commonwealth if allowed. You prefer the grower of products, the direct contributor of the economy, providing for himself and for others. I do not deny such audacity, such risk, and such glorious rewards. On the other hand, I merely admire more those who are tasked to make the society orderly and lawful.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 08-20-10 at 01:41 AM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  8. #68
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    I'm also packing and moving over the next week, but I would also put out there that politicians are also big idea producers which can improve the lives of "everyone."
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  9. #69
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I'm also packing and moving over the next week, but I would also put out there that politicians are also big idea producers which can improve the lives of "everyone."
    And which idea is that? The idea to live and let live is a good idea. I'm not sure a politician created that one.

  10. #70
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    You should read Hakim Bey. I'm not an anarchist, but I tend to be very skeptical of the idea of a complete chaos as a result of the diminishing of a state. Think about when you get together with your neighbors and have a BBQ. It's a communal practice that requires no governmental planning. The state, temporarily, does not exist in a neighborhood gathering and yet there is no chaos.
    What would stop me from coming over with a group of my friends, after you've already cooked up the steaks, and forcibly taking them? Nothing. There may be no governmental planning, but without governmental protection you'd be a lot less secure.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

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