View Poll Results: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

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  • Politician

    12 19.05%
  • Businessman

    51 80.95%
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Thread: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

  1. #141
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    And I always wonder WHY, considering the track record of both. Governments, throughout history, have made things more complicated for the common man and woman and they simply make life more difficult. Private corporations have consistently offered us newer, better, cheaper products that make our lives easier, and we continue to hate them more than government.
    Politics/government breeds people with more invasive power/control and better skills at spin.

    Even the US constitution was/is no guarantee against such - no document/law will ever be.

    But really, business can be (and in some cases probably is) the driving force behind political corruption.

    By the same token, political corruption can be (and in some cases probably is) the driving force behind abuses by businesses.

    Personally, I wish there were a way to separate money and power, at least for the countries leaders.

    The two are far too closely linked for me to fully trust any politician.
    Last edited by The Mark; 09-01-10 at 11:53 PM.
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  2. #142
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    And I always wonder WHY, considering the track record of both. Governments, throughout history, have made things more complicated for the common man and woman and they simply make life more difficult. Private corporations have consistently offered us newer, better, cheaper products that make our lives easier, and we continue to hate them more than government.
    I would argue that you are giving a simplistic, nerfed down, innacurate view of things that grossly glosses over things both sides have done.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  3. #143
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I would argue that you are giving a simplistic, nerfed down, innacurate view of things that grossly glosses over things both sides have done.
    I'm sorry I can't write a book on the subject so that it's detailed enough for you. But I am a public history major. Can you please give an in-depth analysis of why you favor government over business?

  4. #144
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    I'm sorry I can't write a book on the subject so that it's detailed enough for you. But I am a public history major. Can you please give an in-depth analysis of why you favor government over business?
    I favor government in some things, businesses in others. Can you not resort to straw men, and maybe take a logic class along with those history courses?
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  5. #145
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    I favor government in some things, businesses in others. Can you not resort to straw men, and maybe take a logic class along with those history courses?
    Perhaps you completely forgot. You said, in general, you favor government over business. Why?

  6. #146
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Perhaps you completely forgot. You said, in general, you favor government over business. Why?
    Because we have more control over the government. I can vote for my elected representatives, i can write them letters, I can usually arrange a meeting with my congressman without too much fuss. They need me, directly, to stay in power, and the two parties are always looking to beat the others, so it leads to a degree of investigation and transparency. Not enough, but a start. Furthermore, since their purpose is to serve the people, certain fields work better at utilities.

    On the other hand, business I have a lot less control over. I can't usually directly interact with anyone in power. The only way to get their attention at all is a massive boycott, which is almost impossible to put together (Trust me, I've tried.) If it's a company like PG&E, you can't even boycott them. Their main goal is to make money, and MANY businesses have shown they have no issues intentionally harming people with dangerous products or practices to make money. There isn't nearly as much investigation or transparency in business practices... the thing that most keeps businesses from harming the public is regulations, which the government puts on.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  7. #147
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Because we have more control over the government. I can vote for my elected representatives, i can write them letters, I can usually arrange a meeting with my congressman without too much fuss. They need me, directly, to stay in power, and the two parties are always looking to beat the others, so it leads to a degree of investigation and transparency. Not enough, but a start. Furthermore, since their purpose is to serve the people, certain fields work better at utilities.

    On the other hand, business I have a lot less control over. I can't usually directly interact with anyone in power. The only way to get their attention at all is a massive boycott, which is almost impossible to put together (Trust me, I've tried.) If it's a company like PG&E, you can't even boycott them. Their main goal is to make money, and MANY businesses have shown they have no issues intentionally harming people with dangerous products or practices to make money. There isn't nearly as much investigation or transparency in business practices... the thing that most keeps businesses from harming the public is regulations, which the government puts on.
    In regards to local governments, you do have a lot of control over them. In terms of state and U.S. reps, you have less control, but still more control than U.S. senators and the president. Since we are a federalized nation with high amounts of presidential authority, your REAL control is quite limited.

    Please explain, with evidence, ANY field that government does better than private citizens. Please note, that question is not the same as what do you support as a government function. I personally support governmental function in certain instances, with the beforehand knowledge that their competency will be less than that of a private entity (ie military, police enforcement, environmental protection).

    You do hit upon a good point. Lawmakers are constantly interested in the political struggle, and will do whatever it takes to get elected. In terms of real investment, the only thing the politician must satisfy is the vote. Politicians CAN be voted out, but bureaucratic institutions created by them take decades or even centuries before citizens realize their harm. And you have ZERO control over any bureaucratic institution.

    Businessmen and women, on the other hand, must satisy a heck of a lot more factors in order to stay in business. For politicians, it's the vote. For Businesses, it's the customer, it's the financial market, it's the cleanliness, the safety, the profit motive, the losses, the thought of bankruptcy, the risk, the innovation, etc. Businesses are forced to please us in order to stay in business. Nearly all businessmen who currently heap the greatest amount of profit in this country were once faced with total bankruptcy and total failure. Edison patented a few hundred GREAT ideas. But he hundreds more failures.

    I'm also looking at business models and political structures as they CURRENTLY stand. There have been companies who were foolish and did not care about occupational or consumer safety. But in any rational sense, those companies DO NOT exist for long.

  8. #148
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Also, a boycott is not always necessary. The majority of small businesses fail in the first year because they could not keep up the competititon and/or consumer demand. They fail, not because of a loud boycott, but because of quiet withdrawal. You don't need Walmart to exist, and if you really hate Walmart, you can stop shopping there and attempt to influence your friends to stay away. Walmart will probably still exist, because the majoity of people don't mind their existance.

  9. #149
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    We do no have more control over government than business. How often do we vote for government? How often do we pay for something from a business? It's not even close. Business is much more closely aligned to what we want because they face a referendum all the time from consumers.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #150
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    You don't need Walmart to exist, and if you really hate Walmart, you can stop shopping there and attempt to influence your friends to stay away. Walmart will probably still exist, because the majoity of people don't mind their existance.
    But the majority of people no longer can borrow money to drive Wal-Mart's growth. In September, 2000, Wal-Mart stock sold for $52. Today it's selling for $51 and change. An investor would have done better with less risk putting the money in a bank.
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