View Poll Results: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

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  • Politician

    12 19.05%
  • Businessman

    51 80.95%
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Thread: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

  1. #121
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Nelson Mandela too.

  2. #122
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    In a state of anarchy, businessmen are free to create whatever they want. And yet they don't. Why is that? Because it's the politician who creates the environment--establishes the rule of law, a system of weights and measures, a taxation system that allows for the construction of basic infrastructure, etc.--that permits a society to rise above anarchy and prosper.
    You are partially right, but generally the statement is false. Governments can set a standard of weights and measures, and this was the Qing Dynasty's greatest achievement. But it is not required in order to create society. Government does establish the rule of law, so that businessmen and women can go about their lives creating without fear of injury from their neighbors. This is something that Libertarians fundamentally agree is a necessity. A taxation system does not allow for the construction of basic infrastructure. It allows for the rule of law to be enforced. Taxation, in largely other forms, simply takes away the earnings of one set of citizens in order to distribute largesse to another set of citizens. Taxation NEVER builds, it only takes away.

    And if anarchy is daily life without government interference, then perhaps we should look at our daily lives. We go our whole lives nearly detached from the government. Yet, we still live our lives and we still prosper. There is nothing wrong with the sentiment: "Live and let live!"

  3. #123
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    In a state of anarchy, I suppose there is nothing in principle to stop people from cooperating, creating, and producing. But when one looks at successful societies, they tend to have one thing in common: good governance. How many admirable businessmen do you find in societies that don't have good government? You see any admirable businessmen in Somalia?
    That is a common misconception, and I'm very technical about terms so you might become suddently agitated. Anarchy is the total absence of government. If a Warlord is your head of state or the politician that has direct control of your life, then that is not anarchy. A failed state is not the same as anarchy. Anarchy, in its purest sense, is total individual liberty. It is impossible, which is why I'm a Libertarian. I do believe in a government that serves fundamental purposes.

    We don't see any admirable businessmen in Somalia (as opposed to the United States) because people in Somalia are not free.

  4. #124
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    History is filled with great and noble politicians, not so with businessmen.
    How long would it take me to write down the names of every single "politician" in history whose actions would disgust the average decent being? "Good politicians" are extremely hard to find. Good Businessmen are a dime a dozen in free countries.

    And as a future poster already has mentioned, politicians can kill large numbers of people legally while the businessman is confined to selling us stuff.

    Politicians often kill smart, savvy businessmen. Businessmen do not kill politicians.
    Last edited by Mensch; 08-27-10 at 03:19 PM.

  5. #125
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    I didn't say there weren't ignoble politicians.

    By the way, Henry Ford was a loony anti-Semite and unethical businessman.
    Of course he was! But look at the results of his actions. FDR was an anti-Semite. Do you despise FDR for that? He also interned more than 120,000 innocent Japanese (2/3 were citizens) and packed the supreme court. Our founding fathers owned slaves, and they were decent politicians in my regard.

    Ford did something truly amazing. He put America on the road. He put Americans behind the wheel and gave them the transportation to move from one area to another very quickly. MOBILITY. The mobility of a nation creates great prosperity, and allows for the average working man to rise up and out of his economic status. And he did for the average working man, not the most elitist subjects. You have to balance out the decencies with the humanist flaws.

  6. #126
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    Otto von Bismarck.
    If a machiavellian Iron Chancellor is your hero, then you have very low standards.

  7. #127
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patria Antiqua View Post
    Nobody is perfect, but he's more good than bad. Can't say the same of any notable businessman I've heard of. Bismarck is worthy of my respect in the way a snake like Henry Ford is not.

    Maybe Bill Gates, but he also happens to be a monopolist, or at least he was.
    Anti-trust laws do more harm than good to the economy of this country, based on globalizing factors.

  8. #128
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I think businessman and entreupeneur (spelling?) are not always the same thing. Someone can create something new, or innovate, or invent, or build, all things related to producing a product. The average businessman is just a salesman, making a commission off the creativity of others. Not saying it is bad, just that selling isn't really something special.
    Yes, you did spell entrepreneur incorrectly. Businessmen are free (in this country) to both create ideas and to peddle them to others. Merchandising a product is often more admirable than a politician's job. Merchandising helps to distribute the products and services to those who wish to buy them. They facilitate the process which helps to drive down prices and improve quality.

  9. #129
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    In a state of anarchy, that's not a problem. No politicians.
    Therefore, not even Somalia is anarchic.

  10. #130
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    Re: Who is more ADMIRABLE, the POLITICIAN or the BUSINESSMAN?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Nelson Mandela too.
    Wow! Two people! Keep going...

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