View Poll Results: (Fill in the blank) People should pay more for health insurance if they _________.

Voters
39. You may not vote on this poll
  • smoke

    28 71.79%
  • are overweight

    19 48.72%
  • are underweight

    8 20.51%
  • don't exercise on a normal basis or aren't active

    10 25.64%
  • don't eat a balanced diet

    9 23.08%
  • have a previous medical condition

    12 30.77%
  • have a family history of a medical condition

    6 15.38%
  • are older

    16 41.03%
  • can afford it

    3 7.69%
  • Other (explain)

    10 25.64%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

  1. #81
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Bottom line?
    Some people think it is unfair for people to make emoney off of other people being sick.
    That's not what insurance companies do. People getting sick is what COSTS them money...

  2. #82
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post

    What assumptions have I made about your views?
    Gosh, I dunno, maybe this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You both seem to be laboring under the assumption that I share your opinion that risks beyond a person's control (e.g. age) should be factored into the cost of their premiums, and/or that I share your opinion that higher medical costs should equal higher premiums (which defeats the whole purpose of insurance). I don't.
    It was, after all, directly quoted in what I posted, so I have no idea how you could be confused about it unless you wanted to be.



    To what mathematical fact are you referring?
    The mathematical and physical facts that most people's medical costs come in the last 20 years of life, which is what I said.


    Actuarial tables? Those only address the relative risk of an insuree; they say nothing about whether those risks should be taken into consideration from a macroeconomic policy standpoint.

    Way to not actually address any of my points and just move straight into snarky comments. I like your style.
    Funny; it seems to me that this is exactly what YOU did. I'm talking about costs. That's obvious enough. You're trying to counter-argue with premiums. Not the same thing, you know the difference, and that you are purposely obfuscating speaks to your honesty here. Especially now that you're trying to blame me for it.

    Stick to what I actually say, not your fantasies about what I think.
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  3. #83
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    That's not what insurance companies do. People getting sick is what COSTS them money...
    Yes... but the premiums are computed with thosse costs in mind, so they still make money.
    Insurance companies -rely- on the fact that people get sick; if people didn't get sick, insurance companies would have no business.

    And thus:
    Some people think it is unfair for people to make money off of other people being sick.

  4. #84
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So you agree that the insueance companies, through actuarial science, accurately calculate risk and adjust premiums accordingly.
    Yes, of course. I don't know where you ever got the impression that I thought otherwise. Insurance companies, through actuarial science, will charge exactly the premium that the market will bear for any given demographic. Our point of contention is whether they should be ALLOWED to do that from a policy standpoint, and/or whether it's a good idea to allow them to do that from a macroeconomic standpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman
    Just as there are numerous policy (among others) reasons why it is a bad idea to force the young and healthy to subsidize the health care costs of the old and sick,
    Some economic reasons why that is indeed a good idea:
    - To eliminate economic uncertainty and help people make better financial plans for their lives
    - To eliminate age discrimination in the work place
    - To steer the system toward catastrophic - rather than comprehensive - health insurance, which will likely be the result of a more level playing field across age groups

    Now then, what are your economic reasons why it's a bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman
    especially when the old and sick have conditions and afflictions related to their lifestyle choices.
    Why do you continue to bring up this red herring? I've already said numerous times that I don't have a problem with charging people for their lifestyle choices (e.g. smoking, obesity). Your age, however, is not a lifestyle choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman
    Then your point to that effect is countered. Thank you.
    And this is why you're a political extremist. You only believe in all-or-nothing solutions. If something doesn't solve 100% of a problem, then it must be completely worthless.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-18-10 at 03:34 PM.
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  5. #85
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    nobody chooses to get in an accident either. But they do choose their lifestyle choices just as they do choose the speed they drive. And they both have consequences that are costly. So why should anybody but them have to pay for these choices?
    If they choose to drive recklessly, then I agree that they SHOULD pay for those choices.
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  6. #86
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    The mathematical and physical facts that most people's medical costs come in the last 20 years of life, which is what I said.
    Well you'll certainly get no argument from me on that point, so I'm not exactly sure why you're talking about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw
    Funny; it seems to me that this is exactly what YOU did. I'm talking about costs. That's obvious enough. You're trying to counter-argue with premiums. Not the same thing, you know the difference, and that you are purposely obfuscating speaks to your honesty here. Especially now that you're trying to blame me for it.
    In other words, I'm talking about the subject of the thread (when should health insurance cost more) and you're talking about something unrelated. Were you planning on drawing some sort of logical conclusion about health care premiums based on the fact that most health care costs are incurred in the last 10-20 years of one's life? Or were you just stating that little tidbit of trivia just for fun? The more you know...
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Were you planning on drawing some sort of logical conclusion about health care premiums based on the fact that most health care costs are incurred in the last 10-20 years of one's life? Or were you just stating that little tidbit of trivia just for fun? The more you know...
    If you had engaged me on what I said, you might have found out.
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  8. #88
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Sounds good to me in theory...I like the idea of people being financially rewarded for healthy lifestyles. I'm just not sure how it would play out in practice. It seems like it would involve a great deal of subjectivity on the part of insurers, would be difficult to monitor effectively, and would be invasive to people's privacy.

    Smoking and obesity are the low-hanging fruit because they're fairly easy to measure, are reasonably objective, and are responsible for the vast majority of behavior-related illnesses.
    No matter how great the threat, nobody will change their eating habits, myself included, until new symptoms scare them. I ate everything I wanted until My cholesterol jumped up to 230.

    Now it's bran muffins, 2 percent fat milk, Sanka, and poached eggs.

    ricksfolly

  9. #89
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    No matter how great the threat, nobody will change their eating habits, myself included, until new symptoms scare them. I ate everything I wanted until My cholesterol jumped up to 230.

    Now it's bran muffins, 2 percent fat milk, Sanka, and poached eggs.

    ricksfolly
    When I went into the hospital I was retaining 20 or so pounds of fluid. Salt was the culprit and now my diet is as salt free as possible.

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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Our point of contention is whether they should be ALLOWED to do that from a policy standpoint, and/or whether it's a good idea to allow them to do that from a macroeconomic standpoint.
    And the answer is yes.

    Some economic reasons why that is indeed a good idea:
    Now then, what are your economic reasons why it's a bad idea?
    Oooh... moving the goalposts.
    The issue was POLICY reasons. I dont need to limit those reasons to just economics.
    1: People are responsbile for themselves, not others. Forcing people to -directly- subsidize the health care cost forces them to be respobsible for others when they have no such responsibilty
    2: Fixing insurance costs meddles with the free market and limits options for consumers. People should not be forced to buy insirance at all; forcing young, healthy to but insurance they do not need unnecessarily takes from them money they could better use elsewhere.
    3: Policy holders are forced to pay larger premiums that they woudl otherwise need to and all they get in return is some hope that their insurance will not go up later. There's no -guarantee- that this will be the case, for any number of reasons.

    As for YOUR reasons:
    - To eliminate economic uncertainty and help people make better financial plans for their lives
    This is a false premise. Thats the intention; there's no guarantee. Meanwhile, these people spend money they dont need to spend and must go without things they might be better off having.

    - To eliminate age discrimination in the work place
    Only in terms of the cost of insurance. There are a zillion resons why an employer might want to hire a yonger person over an older one; to think tha this small facotr will eliminate age discrimination in the workplace is farcical at best.

    - To steer the system toward catastrophic - rather than comprehensive - health insurance, which will likely be the result of a more level playing field across age groups
    Nothing in forcing younger people to subsidize the insurance costs of older people does this.

    Why do you continue to bring up this red herring? I've already said numerous times that I don't have a problem with charging people for their lifestyle choices (e.g. smoking, obesity). Your age, however, is not a lifestyle choice.
    No,. It is, however a demonstrable risk factor.
    Like any other demonstrable risk factor, age is a legimitate factor in determining premiums.
    Once you agree that something is a demonstrable risk factor, there's no sound argument for excluding those factors when determining premiums.

    And this is why you're a political extremist.
    Hey... you stated something and then you admitted that you were wrong. Dont be mad at ME.

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