View Poll Results: (Fill in the blank) People should pay more for health insurance if they _________.

Voters
39. You may not vote on this poll
  • smoke

    28 71.79%
  • are overweight

    19 48.72%
  • are underweight

    8 20.51%
  • don't exercise on a normal basis or aren't active

    10 25.64%
  • don't eat a balanced diet

    9 23.08%
  • have a previous medical condition

    12 30.77%
  • have a family history of a medical condition

    6 15.38%
  • are older

    16 41.03%
  • can afford it

    3 7.69%
  • Other (explain)

    10 25.64%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

  1. #111
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    I voted smoker, not eating a balanced diet, not exercising regularly, and older.

    I did not select overweight and underweight because these are not necessarily related to lifestyle factors, but the above factors are.

    The cost of maintaining the elderly population is prohibitive so they should pay more, especially if procedures are for life extension.

  2. #112
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If you cannot address what I said, why bother posting?
    I think I am addressing it. If you're saying it's wrong for people to make money from sickness, does that include doctors?

  3. #113
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    I think I am addressing it. If you're saying it's wrong for people to make money from sickness, does that include doctors?
    I said that Some people think it is unfair for people to make money off of other people being sick.
    I dis NOT say that I was among those people.

  4. #114
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I said that Some people think it is unfair for people to make money off of other people being sick.
    I dis NOT say that I was among those people.
    I know, but after some thought I decided it looked like that was your argument. Is it, or not?

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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Ok... but how does that translate to these higher risks not being reflected in higher premiums?
    Why should the added risk associated with your 'natural condition' be assumed by others?
    Because that's the entire point of "insurance". And some of those groups, particularly tobacco users, already pay extra into the system. You just want to charge them again for the same thing to extract more money from them. At some point we're going to have to realize we're a free country. And if we're going to have a system of mandated insurance, then that's just that. Consequence of not having throught and action control.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #116
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    I know, but after some thought I decided it looked like that was your argument. Is it, or not?
    No. It is not.

  7. #117
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    When an older person, or someone who smokes buys life insurance, he pays more. That is only right. Should those of us who are healthy pay higher premiums for health insurance because those who smoke or have a previous medical condition are allowed to get insurance at the same price? Because of Obama Care, I am afraid that next year will mean higher premiums for me.

  8. #118
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Because that's the entire point of "insurance".
    We've been thru this - your premise is demonstrably flawed.
    Charging different premiums based on risk of cost does not negate the aggregating effect of spreading the cost over the group, and so the effect remains.

    Further, you didnt answer the questions:
    -How does a "natural" condition that creates a higher risk translate to these higher risks being immune from higher premiums?
    -Why should the added risk associated with your 'natural condition' be assumed by others?
    Last edited by Goobieman; 08-19-10 at 04:01 PM.

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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by gmeyers1944 View Post
    When an older person, or someone who smokes buys life insurance, he pays more. That is only right. Should those of us who are healthy pay higher premiums for health insurance because those who smoke or have a previous medical condition are allowed to get insurance at the same price?
    You are exactly correct -- there is no sound argument for forcing me to pay for the risks that you represent.

  10. #120
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    Re: When should health insurance cost more for someone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    We've been thru this - your premise is demonstrably flawed.
    Charging different premiums based on risk of cost does not negate the aggregating effect of spreding the cost over the group, and so the effect remains.
    It wasn't demonstrably flawed, you just disagree with me. When you start charging people varying amounts of money on risk, you've moved past an insurance model which mixes the various risk classes into a single, aggregated payment group to a more market based system. That's no longer insurance; that's more like paying your own way. Which in and of itself isn't so bad. The real problem here is that the medical system has become incredibly expensive and normal people can't simply pay out of their pocket in full. But those costs are artificially inflated, particularly by the current dynamics under which insurance operates. But that's an aside on the pricing model.

    The main point of insurance is to aggregate risk over a large population. Aggregation of risk does not mean individually assigning risk factors to the individuals who are supposed to make up the aggregated group. There's actually no aggregation in the model under which various risk assessments are made and premiums changed. You charge people market value based on their choices; but if that's the case why have insurance? There are other ways in which we can bring down the inflated medical costs and then everyone is 100% liable for their own personal actions. Not a bad idea. But counter to the idea of insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Further, you didn't answer the questions:
    -How does a "natural" condition that creates a higher risk translate to these higher risks being immune from higher premiums?
    What is a natural condition? Obesity, diabetes? Things of that nature? Essentially you're looking at various things with various probabilities. Statistically smokers die earlier and have many health problems. Individually, however, it may not be the case. It's possible for an entirely healthy person to get cancer while someone who has been smoking a lot suffers no perceived ill effects. So you want to charge individually on things which occur statistically. Which is market value evaluation, and of which is not insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    -Why should the added risk associated with your 'natural condition' be assumed by others?
    Because that's the purpose of insurance. It's like this, you wanna bitch about assuming other people's risk. I pay car insurance. I also happen to be a damned fine driver. In my 17 years of driving, I've had 1 speeding ticket. Yet I still pay car insurance. It's a lower premium due to my awesomeness at driving; but it's not zero. So I've been paying for almost 2 decades now for other people's accidents. For other people's behavior. Why should i have paid all that money for something I wasn't using? Even with some amount of mitigation to my premiums, I've been assuming the risk of others.

    Now car insurance is a little different than health insurance right now because everyone is required to have car insurance (also, no longer insurance at that point). I can't opt out, so I have to pay. Currently with health care that's not quite the case. But the point is that individually my good behavior hasn't really been rewarded and despite the fact that with car insurance there are floating premiums; I've still assumed the risk of others. Just like in health insurance. Now if it comes to the point where EVERYONE has to have health insurance, maybe I could see good argument for varying premiums; but we'll have to work out all the details. Specifically with tobacco, I would always be against charging them more since the majority of taxes on tobacco were supposed to be used to offset health care costs.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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