View Poll Results: Should Jullian Assange be tried for treason or something?

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Thread: Should Jullian Assange be tried for treason or something?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should Jullian Assange be tried for treason or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Not treason, but the guy is certainly a propagandist asshole. I'll never understand why so many people are so eager to see our security undermined.
    I don't think he's trying to undermine our security. He's just trying to help people get informed opinions about the war.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC
    Do you have anything to support this, or is it just an assumption?
    Daniel Ellsberg: Wikileaks' Julian Assange "in Danger" - The Daily Beast

  2. #12
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    Re: Should Jullian Assange be tried for treason or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    I don't think he's trying to undermine our security. He's just trying to help people get informed opinions about the war.
    That's a load of garbage. His goal is to get the US to withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan by embarrassing the country and painting our actions in the most negative light imaginable. He's a propagandist who doesn't care about the impact of his actions beyond his own goals.

    So because Daniel Ellsburg says it, it means it must be true?

    Moreover, he engages in some terrible logical reasoning in order to arrive at that point:

    I would confidently make the judgment that very little, less than one percent, one percent perhaps, can honestly be said to endanger national security. That’s distinct [from the percentage that could cause] embarrassment—very serious embarrassment, [if people] realize that we are aware of highly murderous and corrupt operations by people and that we are supporting them. It is very seriously embarrassing.

    I think a better judgment would be to look over the 260,000 cables and exclude those which on their surface are dangerous. If the choice is between putting none of them out, as the State Department would like, and putting all of them out, I definitely feel our national security would be improved if they were put out.
    In the diplomatic and political context, "very serious embarrassment" is directly related to national security. Anything that seriously harms the country's ability to conduct diplomatic operations harms our national security, regardless of how much people like Assange or Ellsburg justify it to themselves.
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    Re: Should Jullian Assange be tried for treason or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    That's a load of garbage. His goal is to get the US to withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan by embarrassing the country and painting our actions in the most negative light imaginable. He's a propagandist who doesn't care about the impact of his actions beyond his own goals.
    A lot of people want us to withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan, and they have the right to work for that goal. It doesn't make them a threat to national security at all. It just makes them a threat to some people's pet national security policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC;
    So because Daniel Ellsburg says it, it means it must be true?

    Moreover, he engages in some terrible logical reasoning in order to arrive at that point:



    In the diplomatic and political context, "very serious embarrassment" is directly related to national security. Anything that seriously harms the country's ability to conduct diplomatic operations harms our national security, regardless of how much people like Assange or Ellsburg justify it to themselves.
    It doesn't harm our ability to conduct diplomatic operations. It could undermine public support for the war, but only because it's telling us something most of the world already knows.

  4. #14
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    Re: Should Jullian Assange be tried for treason or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    A lot of people want us to withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan, and they have the right to work for that goal. It doesn't make them a threat to national security at all. It just makes them a threat to some people's pet national security policies.
    Working to get us to withdraw does not make someone a threat to national security.
    Doing everything possible to publish classified information in order to harm US aims does make someone a threat to national security.

    It doesn't harm our ability to conduct diplomatic operations. It could undermine public support for the war, but only because it's telling us something most of the world already knows.
    How on earth does it not harm our ability to conduct diplomatic operations? Secrecy is pretty much the most important part of diplomacy - that's why we have it. If you can't ensure that your communications will remain secret, you can't really communicate.
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    Re: Should Jullian Assange be tried for treason or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Working to get us to withdraw does not make someone a threat to national security.
    Doing everything possible to publish classified information in order to harm US aims does make someone a threat to national security.



    How on earth does it not harm our ability to conduct diplomatic operations? Secrecy is pretty much the most important part of diplomacy - that's why we have it. If you can't ensure that your communications will remain secret, you can't really communicate.
    I don't see how it harms American aims for us to know we're supporting a corrupt, incompetent regime...unless our specific aim is to keep supporting a corrupt, incompetent regime. If what we're doing embarrasses diplomatic relationships, fine. Let them be embarrassed publicly so they can stop embarrassing us in secret.

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    Re: Should Jullian Assange be tried for treason or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    I don't see how it harms American aims for us to know we're supporting a corrupt, incompetent regime...unless our specific aim is to keep supporting a corrupt, incompetent regime. If what we're doing embarrasses diplomatic relationships, fine. Let them be embarrassed publicly so they can stop embarrassing us in secret.
    Do you think it would be a good idea for the government to make all diplomatic communications completely public?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Should Jullian Assange be tried for treason or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Do you think it would be a good idea for the government to make all diplomatic communications completely public?
    No. I think they should have agreed to vet these before they were released.

  8. #18
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    Re: Should Jullian Assange be tried for treason or something?

    To be fair, I dont care if they guy talks about our screw ups or the fact that we may paint our soldiers as modern day rambos when that could be further from the case. my main concern is the information the guy has that can be used by the enemies and the fact that he said he doesnt care that it will be out there.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Should Jullian Assange be tried for treason or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    To be fair, I dont care if they guy talks about our screw ups or the fact that we may paint our soldiers as modern day rambos when that could be further from the case. my main concern is the information the guy has that can be used by the enemies and the fact that he said he doesnt care that it will be out there.
    If he doesn't care, why did he delay in order to review and hold back 15,000 documents? The fact is that he would have given the White House access to all the documents if they'd wanted them. Instead they made a political decision that the benefit of being able to trash Assange in the media was greater than any damage that might result from releasing the documents unchecked. That should say something about how much of a security risk they really are.

  10. #20
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    Re: Should Jullian Assange be tried for treason or something?

    It's free speech mate. You either support it or you dont. Which is it?

    Well then, this guy reserves the right to do whatever the hell he wants with the information, the best the US can do is punish those who leaked it to him severely and stop taking the piss out of the freedom of information act, like hiding civilian deaths, which is just downright wrong. It serves the US right. On the other hand, the information which will disrupt operations and risk the lives of soldiers will just need to be re-evaluated.
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