What should be the primary purpose of our education system?

To produce a vibrant, critically thinking and educated populace. If you're going to let people vote for how the country is run, they need the skills to make educated decisions.

Johnny said:

I wish schools had uniforms in the states as well. It puts tge kids on equal footing when they look the same. Then it's a matter of keeping your uniform clean. As opposed to getting ragged on by kids with the nice clothes.

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And that'll completely cure kids being made fun of? If it's not clothes, it'll be hair. Or body type. Or where they live. Or who they hang out with. Or whatever else kids can possibly find to ostracize each other.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

An employee is in a voluntary association with his employer.

A child is required, by state law, to attend some form of school. His participation is not voluntary and his choice of clothing is a matter, within very broad limits indeed, between himself and his guardians. The state has few laws regarding clothing, and children should not be given special considerations that deprive them of their freedom simply because they're required by law to attend school.

Glad to see the "very liberal" weighing in on the side of overweening state interference in a private matter.


Besides, the girls wearing those Hot Dog on a Stick uniforms are so cute in their abject embarassment who could want to stop that?

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see, i have nothing against that argument, but that you were insinuating that it turns them into robots is what i found funny, i wore uniforms at school, and i'm not a robot, of course, i'm not American either, so that could be why.

Ultimately I wish we didn't have to care about nationhood, but since every other nation seems to care about nationhood (or should I say tribalism), it's important for a country to have a uniform education system where everyone is, for the most part, on the same page. That means we are taught, more or less, the same facts in school. I do believe this is indoctrination and nationalism to some degree, but not entirely. If nations are to remain competitive and secure, the people have to know the facts of the world.

In a contradictory way, I also wish that the education system were more catered to the individual, instead of a white-wash approach to teaching as if all children are the same. The era we live in is increasingly unwilling to tolerate the nail the sticks out, and they hammer it down by giving children medications for failing to conform in the classroom. Education needs to evolve to be more dynamic and to recognize the needs of each individual student. A lot of students think in a non-linear, abstract way, but the system is not designed for that, so these people get hit hardest. A lot of children who are on drugs to keep them in line are these kinds of "vata" thinkers (if you are familiar with ayurveda). Unfortunately, aside from private school, I think the system is mostly designed to create a work-ready middle class that doesn't necessarily have life skills, but is good at obedience and following instructions.

The strength of nations lies in health and education. With those, most problems are solvable.

Cyberhwk said:

To produce a vibrant, critically thinking and educated populace. If you're going to let people vote for how the country is run, they need the skills to make educated decisions.



And that'll completely cure kids being made fun of? If it's not clothes, it'll be hair. Or body type. Or where they live. Or who they hang out with. Or whatever else kids can possibly find to ostracize each other.

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It won't cure everything but I think it will help a great deal. Many free nations have school uniforms. It also makes it easier on parents. It's easier to buy a couple sets of uniforms and rotate them than to have to buy school clothes.

That would be something for each state and the peope to decide on anyway.

I just personally support school uniforms.

IMHO the people that are against them are mostly people that want to flaunt what they have.

Johnny said:

IMHO the people that are against them are mostly people that want to flaunt what they have.

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I ain't got squat. And my children aren't identical little cogs in bureaucrat's dream of getting rich by investing in a school uniform franchise.

School uniforms do nothing but make kids wear clothes that look similar.

That's it.

The rich ones will still flaunt their wealth, the same way they've aways done, with their mouths.

The gangbangers will still flash their secret hand signals.

The smart ones will still be ostracized by the jocks, and the girls are still going to know who the rich ones are and who the geeks are.

Clothing does not make the man.

What uniforms do provide is a layer of control incompetent bureaucrats can point to and say they're doing something to fix what can't be fixed with clothing.

School got a gang problem? The solution is the have the criminals arrested and put into jail or reform schools, and otherwise removed from contact with students who go to school to learn.

School got an income-gap problem? Then the school needs to teach the students that they have to tolerate each other while at school, without conflict, without violence, without disruption of the job they were sent to the school to do, which is to learn. One of the things children need to be taught in a modern society is that even when you're sitting next to someone who looks totally stupid with the six-inch gauge in his ear and the stainless chicken bone through his nose, you can't be starting a fight with him. And how are they going to learn that when the school is teaching them that the government can force everyone to wear the same clothes?

Uniforms do not do what schools need to do. They're merely a mask to cover incompetence in the school administration and a cover for weak parents who can't make their children behave appropriately. Incompetent school administrators should be fired,. The children of good parents should not be penalized because other children have weak parents.

I still advocate uniforms but I respect your position and agree with the points you've made. You definitely made a great argument.

GayLibertarian said:

I picked:

To instill patriotism and build good citizenship.

Without patriotism, a love of country, ergo a love of capitalism, freedom, the free market and the willingness to give one's life to maintain it, all the other options listed from the choices, cannot be legitamately fulfilled.

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While I agree, my position is that this is the parent's job. Which isn't to say that schools aren't supposed to reinforce the basic notion of love of a country that earns it, but it's should not be the PRIMARY reason for sending a kid to school.

Good night, all.

1,2,3,8. Needed to be able to pick more than one.

GayLibertarian said:

Without patriotism, a love of country, ergo a love of capitalism, freedom, the free market and the willingness to give one's life to maintain it, all the other options listed from the choices, cannot be legitamately fulfilled.

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Your "instilling patriotism" sounds an awful lot like "political indoctrination." I'm sure you'd be right pissed if if some Berkeley liberal taught your kids, "The love of equality, personal rights (including abortion), moderation, collectivism, and tolerance."

In the words of Joe Friday, "Just the facts mam." Politics doesn't belong in schools.

Kandahar said:

What do you think should be the primary purpose of our education system? As I see it, part of the problem we have with our schools is that no one is really able to articulate the goal we are trying to achieve, so we can't measure how successful our schools are. I'm curious as to how much our opinions on this subject diverge from one another.

(This poll isn't a trick question or anything with a hidden political agenda.)

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I'm sorry but the poll is flawed. The answer is a combination of a lot of those things. There is more to education than just pure knowledge or just life skills. When students graduate from high school they should read and write at a 12th grade level. They should understand what citizenship is, the constitution and how to pursue dreams. They should be well grounded in basic economic principles, what investing is and how to handle basic finances. They should be well versed in American history.

I wonder if its possible to teach the constitution without indoctrinating kids into either a conservative, liberal, or other ideology. If not, than we should stick to rote memorization of the text of it and leave interpretation out. A person's opinion should be their own.

I think it depends a bit on the level of education

Elementry? Core curriculum and instill to a poitn patriotism/morals/good citizenship in students.

Middle? Core curriculum (A bit more in depth), early stages of teaching critical thinking, early stages of teaching life skills, starting ot identify students most likely to be highly successful in the future.

High? Teaching HOW to think critically, teaching life skills, prepping for life after public education (be it job OR college), identifying and pushing those likely to be highly successful in the future.

I think in general elementary is getting a foundation for the kids. Learn the countries basic history and even more basic history with regards to the world. Get a basic grasp for math, English, etc…the various core stuff that while we may not remember the specific rules helps to get our mind to a point where the general information with regards to the USE of it remains to a point. I do think at this point it’s in societies interest to re-enforce some generalized, basic, moral type things. Stealing bad, cheating bad, lying bad, be nice to others, don’t talk to strangers, don’t do drugs, etc. I say re-enforce because I think generally these are things parents are already instilling in kids but there’s ways that they can be easily reinforced in school. This also helps society to give some kind of guidance to kids coming from homes where the parents don’t care much to teach their kids. I think a bit of Patriotism isn’t bad to be instilling in children a well when they’re at a young idealistic stage.

Middle is aptly named middle point between elementary and high. Still teaching the core curriculum, though at this point it should be a bit more advanced or a bit more in depth. In doing so as well they should start attempting to help steer them towards critical thinking at this point. Life skills should slowly be getting integrated into the educational process, generally ones more pertinent to them at a young age. Additionally this is when we really should be looking out for potentially gifted or talented students and steering them towards a direction that maximizes that talent as they go forward.

High School is where the focus should switch from broad curriculum based training to more preparation. Life skills that are useful as an adult should be taught and students should identify as they go forward if college or a career is likely after high school and begin training towards whichever of those is the answer. Critical thinking should be a focus, not simply as a structured thing but instead rather HOW one thinks critically. High School needs to be more about the HOW than the WHY. HOW to think critically, HOW to apply oneself to get a job done, HOW to show dedication, HOW to take initiative, etc. The earlier portions of schooling should be somewhat formulaic, but at this point students should be put in situations to take that formula and figure out how to apply it themselves. Going about it that way gives them the best chance to then actually use those skills in the real world for advantageous purposes, focusing on actual understanding and thinking rather than memorization and recitation.

This poll should have allowed multiple choice selections. The answer is a combination of goals.

Your Star said:

To teach students critical thinking skills

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Winston Smith said:

Nailed it. That and fundamentals like reading, writing, etc.

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Layla_Z said:

I also think that a good education teaches a person how to learn. We should be learning our entire lives.

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I think the primary goal of education through the high school level is to mold good citizens. The attributes of a good citizen are:

1. fundamentals - reading, writing, math
2. critical thinking - learn on their own
3. liberal arts - history, philosophy, science, political science, economics
4. life skills - personal finance, health, sex ed, home ec
5. good citizenship - capitalism, liberal Republicanism, elections, checks and balances, the Constitution
6. pepare for work - vocational skills
7. athletics - health and social cooperation nd competition

All of these encompass the primary goal of developing capable good citizens.

Orion said:

Ultimately I wish we didn't have to care about nationhood, but since every other nation seems to care about nationhood (or should I say tribalism), it's important for a country to have a uniform education system where everyone is, for the most part, on the same page. That means we are taught, more or less, the same facts in school. I do believe this is indoctrination and nationalism to some degree, but not entirely. If nations are to remain competitive and secure, the people have to know the facts of the world.

In a contradictory way, I also wish that the education system were more catered to the individual, instead of a white-wash approach to teaching as if all children are the same. The era we live in is increasingly unwilling to tolerate the nail the sticks out, and they hammer it down by giving children medications for failing to conform in the classroom. Education needs to evolve to be more dynamic and to recognize the needs of each individual student. A lot of students think in a non-linear, abstract way, but the system is not designed for that, so these people get hit hardest. A lot of children who are on drugs to keep them in line are these kinds of "vata" thinkers (if you are familiar with ayurveda). Unfortunately, aside from private school, I think the system is mostly designed to create a work-ready middle class that doesn't necessarily have life skills, but is good at obedience and following instructions.

The strength of nations lies in health and education. With those, most problems are solvable.

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That's pretty much what the system was designed to do.

A lot of other people have brought up great points, like making it a more individualized system but you can't do that without it costing insane amounts of money.

Toss it, people will still get educated.
The difference is that it will be done cheaper and it will be better suited to their individual needs.

I have not read all of the responses to this question, but to offer my own humble opinion, I feel that the core disciplines are what the public school system should be teaching our children. School is to educate and prepare for college, not teach social and other lessons that should be taught by parents. If we could get publiv school back to the place where kids learn how to do the core disciplines, and not simply study for a standardized test, then the US would once again be competitive with the world. Currently our schools have delved into teaching far more than they were designed to do, thus the problem. Teach reading, writing, and math and let parents handle the rest. Parents, stop being lazy!

Education should aim for preparation for life as an adult, a self sustaining adult.
Critical thinking, I am afraid, would be heavy on being critical of opposing views and light on actual thinking, if it is taught by those who are already brain-washed by their political slant.

Provide the opportunity for an education. Period. Offer quality classes and quality instruction. Allow little Johnny the opportunity to succeed or fail. TEACH. Dont indoctrinate, dont usurp the roles of parents, dont sacrifice the majority because the occasional asshole wants to be disruptive.

I've always felt like it was the rule of the school to give my kids a core education in basic subjects. It's up to me, as a parent, to teach them to think critically, to help them develop a work ethic, to develop their core values, and to teach them to be self-sufficient.

I'd say that the schools can expand their mission when they've mastered Item #1. Which, from all appearances, is a long ways in the future.

Catz Part Deux said:

I've always felt like it was the rule of the school to give my kids a core education in basic subjects. It's up to me, as a parent, to teach them to think critically, to help them develop a work ethic, to develop their core values, and to teach them to be self-sufficient.

I'd say that the schools can expand their mission when they've mastered Item #1. Which, from all appearances, is a long ways in the future.

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Amen. Having schools assuming the role of responsible parent is not unlike having congress preaching fiscal responsibility to citizens. Start with doing their job...go from there...

pbrauer said:

I chose the first option, however I think the second one also applies. This poll should multiple choices.

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I chose the second option because if a person has no idea on how to survive life, of what use are educational learnings.

I say all of the above. USA! USA! USA!

VanceMack said:

Provide the opportunity for an education. Period. Offer quality classes and quality instruction. Allow little Johnny the opportunity to succeed or fail. TEACH. Dont indoctrinate, dont usurp the roles of parents, dont sacrifice the majority because the occasional asshole wants to be disruptive.

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What do you think should be done by society, or by anyone, if a parent is failing in their duties to educate their children on non-academic things?

Scarecrow Akhbar said:

I ain't got squat. And my children aren't identical little cogs in bureaucrat's dream of getting rich by investing in a school uniform franchise.

School uniforms do nothing but make kids wear clothes that look similar.

That's it.

The rich ones will still flaunt their wealth, the same way they've aways done, with their mouths.

The gangbangers will still flash their secret hand signals.

The smart ones will still be ostracized by the jocks, and the girls are still going to know who the rich ones are and who the geeks are.

Clothing does not make the man.

What uniforms do provide is a layer of control incompetent bureaucrats can point to and say they're doing something to fix what can't be fixed with clothing.

School got a gang problem? The solution is the have the criminals arrested and put into jail or reform schools, and otherwise removed from contact with students who go to school to learn.

School got an income-gap problem? Then the school needs to teach the students that they have to tolerate each other while at school, without conflict, without violence, without disruption of the job they were sent to the school to do, which is to learn. One of the things children need to be taught in a modern society is that even when you're sitting next to someone who looks totally stupid with the six-inch gauge in his ear and the stainless chicken bone through his nose, you can't be starting a fight with him. And how are they going to learn that when the school is teaching them that the government can force everyone to wear the same clothes?

Uniforms do not do what schools need to do. They're merely a mask to cover incompetence in the school administration and a cover for weak parents who can't make their children behave appropriately. Incompetent school administrators should be fired,. The children of good parents should not be penalized because other children have weak parents.

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Dude. I'm not supposed to agree with you. that's not how this site works! cut it out

I have often felt that if our system would drop many of the courses and curriculum I see as unnecessary we could have all the basics taught by grade 6. From there we could move on to teaching them more specific fields that are of interest to the child (much like collage). Instead we try a very broad approach to try and insure that a student has some knowledge in fields that child has no interest in pursuing and will likely never use.