View Poll Results: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good

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  • YES! More Harm than Good

    22 38.60%
  • NO! More good than harm!

    21 36.84%
  • Other / I dont know

    11 19.30%
  • Shut up Noodle! I AM God!!!

    3 5.26%
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Thread: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

  1. #81
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    No - I don't believe the Children's War would have happened without Religion.
    Nor would the Spanish Inquisition and the Great Crusades. What about the face off between Middle Eastern Countries? Would much of that be going on right now? What about 9/11 - would that have happened? What about Cults - all in the name of a twisted 'god' belief and worhsip? Would we be defending Israel so much if we weren't a "Christian nation" (according to many people's beliefs - not mine).

    Sure - wars happen - right now people are beign tortured and killed and religion and God doesn't factor it. But that's doesn't mean that *countless* people have met their end because someone was on a religious-trip and trying to spread the good word through their proclaimed Jihad.
    The point that I'm making is that in the vast majority of "religious" conflicts that have occurred, the religious division was merely one of many factors involved. And again, as I noted earlier, even in the absence of all "religion," there would be something else taking its place.


    Religious people believe it happened (I don't)
    And they worship the God/Gods who did such attrocities and accept it - and even defend said beliefs and actions.
    You're missing my point. You're placing those deaths at the feet of religion. If they didn't happen, then that doesn't make any sense.

    You know why God killed all the children in the flood? (I asked this in another forum years back) - the Defendors of God said "Because they were *really really bad people*"

    Mmmmhmm.
    So why not go tell those people how dumb they are?

    Religion breeds stupidity, that's for damn sure. . . and Foster's an acceptance of "kill all" as long as "God does it it's ok!" - which is why it's so dangerous.
    On the long list of things that breed stupidity in this country, I don't think religion is anywhere near the top.

    Of course crap would happened without religion - of course it would. But you cannot deny that people all too often *use* religion as support, a reason, an excuse and as their 'purpose' far too often - even if it's just a bunch of bull**** to them, personally.
    I'm having a hard time understanding how you're admitting this and still making your earlier argument. As you yourself acknowledge, many of the bad people doing things in the name of religion are just using religion as a shield for their underlying bad desires. Thus, it stands to reason that even in a world without religion, those same bad things would happen. Given that, it makes no sense to blame religion for those bad things.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 08-15-10 at 01:10 PM.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    Well since that will never happen anytime soon... I guess we'll never know.

    Seriously? You think that people are nice only because of religion? That there are no evil people who believe in God? That there are no nice people who are atheists?

  3. #83
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Funny - I see it the opposite. . . I see that the world is wretched because it's pocked full of 'my God vs your God' issues. . . and would like the god factor to be removed.
    And you have no way to prove that. People always have a tendency to divide themselves into groups, and create friction with other groups. Religion is just one of these groups. If everyone stopped believing in God tomorrow, all those things I mentioned would continue. You don't need God to be in an "us vs them" mindset. Just look at the Partisan Politics section.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Why do you think that a beliefless place would bring more harm into the equation?
    When did I say that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Why do you equate peace and morality *with* religious beliefs? (here's where we (religious and non-religious people) differ - Some non-believers see that people can live peacefully and be moral without God, many religious people dont').
    What? Did you read my post? I have many friends who are non-believers and they're really no less moral than my religious friends. I didn't say any different.
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  4. #84
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    I voted "don't know".

    How can you measure something like "harm" and "good" and compare them? Is an act of harm to one have the same balance as the act of good to one? If so then how much good has been done? How much harm? Remember, in peoples memories, harm lasts far longer than good. Also are we talking about ALL the religions? Just one? A few? With such a vague question with no parameters given you can't really give an honest answer other than "don't know".
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Pretend that there was no such thing as religion. Do you actually think that none of those things would have happened?

    The fact that wars and atrocities were committed in the name of religion doesn't mean that they would never have happened in the absence of religion.
    But they were committed int hte name of religion, and that is the point of the thread. If there was no religion then the issue would be moot, right?
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  6. #86
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    But they were committed int hte name of religion, and that is the point of the thread. If there was no religion then the issue would be moot, right?
    My point is that even in the absence of religion, they would have been committed in the name of "honor" or "tribe" or "nation" or "culture" or something else.
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  7. #87
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    My point is that even in the absence of religion, they would have been committed in the name of "honor" or "tribe" or "nation" or "culture" or something else.
    Oh, I get you. Your thinking abstractly and you are totally correct. But, that is not the case, right. Religion exists.
    So, wars and murders committed in the name of religion are just as valid as wars committed in the name racial superiority.
    Ultimately, like you suggest, the whole idea of blaming religion is silly since people would just kill in the name of _______ instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  8. #88
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    My point is that even in the absence of religion, they would have been committed in the name of "honor" or "tribe" or "nation" or "culture" or something else.
    Some things - purely and only - happened because of one's (or many's) belief in their God - and that God sent them to do it (or whatever). Many - many many - attrocious acts have been committed ONLY because of religion - and nothing else. With "God's message" quite a few things wouldn't have occured - it's just that simple.

    Not to say, though, that religion is *all bad* - but it is undeniably horrific when people truly believe that God wants them to kill all the "unsaved" in the act of some type of purification or something.

    So - you're asking us to weigh the good against the bad. I did - and deduced that the bad outweighs the good.
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  9. #89
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Some things - purely and only - happened because of one's (or many's) belief in their God - and that God sent them to do it (or whatever). Many - many many - attrocious acts have been committed ONLY because of religion - and nothing else. With "God's message" quite a few things wouldn't have occured - it's just that simple.
    Such as?

    I just don't know how you could possibly know this. Again, if some psycho murders his entire family because he believed that Jesus wanted him to, the same thing would be likely to happen even in some alternate universe without religion.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  10. #90
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    To the OP...

    Religion doesn't harm people, humans harm people.

    If people actually followed the basic tenets of their faith, we probably wouldn't have so much violence, greed, and abuse in the world.

    But people are hypocrites.

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