View Poll Results: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good

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  • YES! More Harm than Good

    22 38.60%
  • NO! More good than harm!

    21 36.84%
  • Other / I dont know

    11 19.30%
  • Shut up Noodle! I AM God!!!

    3 5.26%
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Thread: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

  1. #61
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Why do you think that God would make this so complicated that people have to be "trained" in order to properly explain it? Is God deliberately trying to make things difficult for humans? Wouldn't a merciful God make it as easy as possible for the majority of humans to find him?

    Just questions I have.
    People have to be trained to do their job. The role of a pastor is to be a "shepherd" and a teacher. I am in no way saying that only pastors can interpret and explain the Bible. One of the main things about Christianity is having an individual relationship with God and understanding His truths through being in that relationship with him. However, the Bible also says each Christian is equipped with a Spiritual Gift. One of those gifts is the pastoral gift, and it serves the purpose of being the human leader of a church and educating those who go there. I do believe that God makes it easy for us to find Him. However, He isn't going to force Himself on us and leaves the decision up to us to refuse Him or not.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    People have to be trained to do their job. The role of a pastor is to be a "shepherd" and a teacher. I am in no way saying that only pastors can interpret and explain the Bible. One of the main things about Christianity is having an individual relationship with God and understanding His truths through being in that relationship with him. However, the Bible also says each Christian is equipped with a Spiritual Gift. One of those gifts is the pastoral gift, and it serves the purpose of being the human leader of a church and educating those who go there. I do believe that God makes it easy for us to find Him. However, He isn't going to force Himself on us and leaves the decision up to us to refuse Him or not.
    Well, that's a perspective. I disagree, but you knew that already. However, you explained yourself well.

  3. #63
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Why do you think that God would make this so complicated that people have to be "trained" in order to properly explain it? Is God deliberately trying to make things difficult for humans? Wouldn't a merciful God make it as easy as possible for the majority of humans to find him?

    Just questions I have.
    The newest parts of the Bible were written over two thousand years ago in a different language to a different culture. You don't think it takes some study to be able to put things into the proper context?

    Are the simple basic truths of the Bible easily accessible? Yes. Can the average person have a in depth understanding of scripture simply by reading the Bible on an occassional basis like most of do (if people do that much)? No. To use an analogy. Could I understand the basic plot of Moby Dick just by picking it up and reading it? Yeah. Will I understand all the symbolism and deeper meaning of the book by one casual read through? Not likely.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    The newest parts of the Bible were written over two thousand years ago in a different language to a different culture. You don't think it takes some study to be able to put things into the proper context?

    Are the simple basic truths of the Bible easily accessible? Yes. Can the average person have a in depth understanding of scripture simply by reading the Bible on an occassional basis like most of do (if people do that much)? No. To use an analogy. Could I understand the basic plot of Moby Dick just by picking it up and reading it? Yeah. Will I understand all the symbolism and deeper meaning of the book by one casual read through? Not likely.
    Actually, they were written about 1700 years ago, but why quibble on the details.

  5. #65
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Well, that's a perspective. I disagree, but you knew that already. However, you explained yourself well.
    Thanks, and I do understand that you disagree and I respect your perspective as well.
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Thanks, and I do understand that you disagree and I respect your perspective as well.
    You know what I think about your beliefs already, anyway.

  7. #67
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    This thread reminds how those militantly anti-religious are as bad or worse than those who try and shove their religion down my throat. I have a(well earned) hostility towards Christianity, and in christian subcult in particular, but I at least don't use it to constantly attack religious people every time the topic comes up.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham
    Iíve always believed that America is an idea, not defined by its people but by its ideals. - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    For good and bad, religion has always represented the public aspect of an organizing principle: where we come from and why we are here. Without religion there would have been no great cultures: Greek, Egyptian, Babylonian, Hindu, Roman, Russian, and the Carolingian dynasty among others. All of them were defined by the religion of the day and was an organizing principle for their cultures and societies. It defined their identity versus their enemies. That this was used for bad reasons, both against their enemies as well as to their own people to ensure adherence, should not detract from the good that was done in establishing these empires.

    This is an observation of how religion participated at the societal level. How religion plays at the individual level is more aptly called spirituality and was excluded in the topic.

    There is very real danger in the west having lost its organizing principle. It is the ideas of the liberal republic which allows many different faiths to co-exist. The rise in militant atheism along with the assault on liberal democratic principles seeks to undermine that organizing principle. Woe be to us.
    Last edited by reefedjib; 08-15-10 at 06:26 AM.

  9. #69
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    So, what you're saying is that you're not aware of any biblical justification for a paid ministerial staff?
    What I'm saying is that that's not how it works.

    Do you not understand that almost every response you've made to me has had some kind of personal zinger attached to it?
    And I'm the one whose feelings need salving?

    You need a brick of salt to read my posts.
    I said I take your criticisms of religion with a brick of salt, which is due to the fact that I believe you engage in hyperbole on this topic. That's not a personal attack, that's a basic (and entirely innocuous) observation.

    I have issues.
    I said that you have issues with religion, just like I'm sure you have issues with other bad things. If I said that "religion is a tremendously negative force: socially, personally, historically, financially, and environmentally," it would be safe to say that I have issues with religion. Not sure how you see that as a personal attack.

    I demonize religion in every post.
    No, I said you're taking every opportunity to demonize those who don't share your fervor. That was in response to your claim that anyone who worked for a church was just out to get a gullible herd to pay them money, thus neatly attacking both clergymen and those who practice religion. Looking through this thread, I'd say that was pretty spot on.

    I'm bitter.
    You're bitter toward religion. Are you really going to look at what you've posted in this thread and say that's not an accurate description?

    Where have I made personal comments like this about you, and why do you feel entitled to do this, and then complain that the discussion isn't "decent?"
    You've said that parishioners (a group you clearly lump me and other posters into) are generally gullible and deluded and that the people leading those churches are hucksters.

    I'm pretty clear that if I started dishing these comments back to you, I'd get gigged for it.
    Doubtful, but you're entitled to believe whatever you like.

    So, do you want to have a civil discussion, that doesn't include personal aspersions, or not?
    I think it's clear that there's not much of a point.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    The wars, the murders.....
    The hope given, finding a better way to live......
    I say it's done more good than harm. As for the wars murders and all that other ****, if wasn't religion they would have used something else and sometimes religion wrongly gets blamed for stuff.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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