View Poll Results: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good

Voters
57. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES! More Harm than Good

    22 38.60%
  • NO! More good than harm!

    21 36.84%
  • Other / I dont know

    11 19.30%
  • Shut up Noodle! I AM God!!!

    3 5.26%
Page 4 of 16 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 157

Thread: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

  1. #31
    Educator Jucon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    04-22-14 @ 07:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    787

    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Does your church house homeless people or spend 24 hours a day counseling suicidal people?

    As far as pastoral work goes, it's a good gig for someone who can find a gullible herd to support him/her. Most of the pastors in my area, with a decent-sized congregation, make far more money than I do.

    For the record: I'd have similar problems with a teen center whose building was only used 10% of the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    At least with the church my family attends, a lot of the money DOES go to those things. A group of about 40 christians a day goes to another church to serve meals to about 300 poverty stricken people. And the operation is funded by churches in the area as well as other donations from charitable people.

    Not to mention the money spent on the church is intended to bring in and support more members... not to "feed the ego" of the pastor. More members = more money donated.

    The money also supports students in going to college, funding operations to feed the hungry in other countries, and sends members to locations all over the world to donate their time to help the needy (among other things).

    Edit: PLUS the church is sometimes used to temporarily shelter the homeless.
    Does this answer your question?
    "There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, it to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution." óJohn Adams

  2. #32
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    No, it provides religious services to its members.
    You mean, like sitting in a pew on Sunday? I suspect if you actually looked at the work schedule of the average pastor, you'd be appalled at how little real work some of these people do.

    Did you know that there are many denominations (like the Mormons) where the clergy are ALL unpaid? And yet, they manage to function and have a more highly developed welfare system for their members than most other denominations.

    Right, anyone who runs a church is just out looking for a gullible herd to support them.
    I think that they have a vested interest in maintaining the system that goes beyond altruistic.

    ook, we get the point - you have issues with religion. It doesn't mean you need to take every available opportunity to demonize everyone who doesn't share your fervor. It doesn't reflect well on you and certainly doesn't do much to convince anyone of the validity of your position.
    My posts are in line with the thread topic. If I wanted to take every available opportunity, I'd post a lot more on the religion forum than I do, Right. But, uh...nice ad hominem.

  3. #33
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    "Psht. It's not that hard to figure out how to avoid wanting to kill yourself. The counselors are the ones who've made it so complicated with their namby-pamby discussions about feelings.

    Of course, if people focused on the simplicity of recognizing their place in the world, working to improve their community, and appreciating the simple beauty in being alive, most of the suicide counselors would be out of a job. They have a vested self-interest in perpetuating the system."


    See how foolish that sounds?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #34
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jucon View Post
    Does this answer your question?
    Not to mention the money spent on the church is intended to bring in and support more members...
    Bring in more members who can give more dollars. Like I said, it's a great pyramid scheme.

  5. #35
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    "Psht. It's not that hard to figure out how to avoid wanting to kill yourself. The counselors are the ones who've made it so complicated with their namby-pamby discussions about feelings.

    Of course, if people focused on the simplicity of recognizing their place in the world, working to improve their community, and appreciating the simple beauty in being alive, most of the suicide counselors would be out of a job. They have a vested self-interest in perpetuating the system."

    See how foolish that sounds?
    Most suicide counselors are volunteers. They direct suicidal people to medical doctors who can help these folks with what we now know is a medical condition.

    But, nice try.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 08-15-10 at 02:31 AM.

  6. #36
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    You mean, like sitting in a pew on Sunday? I suspect if you actually looked at the work schedule of the average pastor, you'd be appalled at how little real work some of these people do.
    I don't think you have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

    Every church I've ever seen has mass 7 days a week (including several on the weekends), religious education 2-4 nights a week, confirmations, baptisms, weddings, confessionals, etc. In addition, they're open for most of the hours that those things aren't going on.

    Did you know that there are many denominations (like the Mormons) where the clergy are ALL unpaid? And yet, they manage to function and have a more highly developed welfare system for their members than most other denominations.
    Great!

    I think that they have a vested interest in maintaining the system that goes beyond altruistic.
    Sort of like how suicide hotline workers have a vested interest in people trying to kill themselves or how homeless shelter workers have a vested interest in people living on the streets, right?

    My posts are in line with the thread topic. If I wanted to take every available opportunity, I'd post a lot more on the religion forum than I do, Right. But, uh...nice ad hominem.
    You accuse anyone who works in a church of looking for a "gullible herd" to support them and I'm the one making ridiculous arguments?
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 08-15-10 at 02:36 AM.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  7. #37
    Educator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    08-02-11 @ 10:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    915

    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Psht. It's not that hard to figure out how to avoid treating people like crap. The clergy are the ones who've made it so complicated with their theological disputes.

    Of course, if people focused on the simplicity of acting justly, loving tenderly, and walking humbly before the divine, most of the clergy would be out of a job. They have a vested self-interest in perpetuating the system.
    In my experience, people don't reject religion because it's too complicated. They reject it because they think their own personal issues are too complicated and the answers they're being given are too simple. Simple does not equal easy.

  8. #38
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Most suicide counselors are volunteers
    Among those that work part-time, sure. Just like many part-time pastors work for free.
    Among those that work full-time, I bet the majority are paid. Just like full-time pastors.

    They direct suicidal people to medical doctors who can help these folks with what we now know is a medical condition.
    Which has what to do with what we're talking about? They have a vested interest in people calling their suicide hotline just like pastors have a vested interest in people showing up to church. You just think that one is a good use of dollars while the other isn't.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  9. #39
    Clown Prince of Politics
    Psychoclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hiding from the voices in my head.
    Last Seen
    12-14-17 @ 09:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,738

    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    I can only speak for Christianity, as that's what I know and belong to. And let me start by saying I recognize that many evil things have been done in the name of the church. Hate, persecution of others, war. That said, the church has done a lot of good as well. I'll simply try to list some of good the church has brought to mankind.

    1. Fiscal charity. Yeah, as percentage its not huge. Most church tithes do go towards covering salary, building costs, and day to day operations. Churches aren't set up for the primary purpose of charity. However, almost all churches have a food pantry or a benevolence fund or some sort of charitable function(s). Plus there are many religious charities are set up to provide basic needs to others as a way of displaying God's love.

    2. Charity through serving. Donation of time is almost as important as donation of money. Many churches routinely organize their members into volunteering to serve in other charities: homeless shelters, soup kitchens, ect. Plus many people serve within the church community. My wife and I for instance donate time in helping with our youth group. I'm not going to say we're the greatest, but we try to provide guidance and be positive adult role models - which is espeically important for some of our kids who have almost no positive role models actively involved in their lives.

    3. Counseling. As someone else said, pastors do more than just deliver a sermon on Sunday. One of their other primary roles is that of counselor, primarly in a spiritual sense yes, but also emotional.

    4. Support network or sense of community. I think this is more important than ever. Back in the old days people could rely on their extended family, but nowadays that's not the case for many people. I can't begin to tell you how wonderful our church was while my grandmother was sick and dying. Or when my father was on strike. Or when my brother lost his job. Or when my father-in-law was out of work. Or when my wife's grandfather passed away. You get the picture.

    5. Moral and spiritual instruction. Can you be a good person without religion? Yeah, unquestionably. But ideally churches should go beyond trying to make us "good people". They should be making us more Christ-like.

    6. And then there is the most important function of the church. Spreading the good news of salvation. I know some folks here will reject it as a fairy tale or whatever. That's their choice and I don't particularly care to debate it because I've learned you can't debate anyone into accepting salvation. However, I will just say I believe it is very real and easily the greatest service the church provides.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

  10. #40
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Redneck Riviera
    Last Seen
    07-09-11 @ 06:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,728

    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Every church I've ever seen has mass 7 days a week (including several on the weekends), religious education 2-4 nights a week, confirmations, baptisms, weddings, confessionals, etc. In addition, they're open for most of the hours that those things aren't going on.
    That's the Catholic church. Protestant churches don't maintain those sorts of hours.

Page 4 of 16 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •