View Poll Results: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good

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  • YES! More Harm than Good

    22 38.60%
  • NO! More good than harm!

    21 36.84%
  • Other / I dont know

    11 19.30%
  • Shut up Noodle! I AM God!!!

    3 5.26%
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Thread: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

  1. #131
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Please, enlighten me on how peoples were helped through "religion."
    Religion can be very comforting to an individual and many people can gain various things from it. From a place to worship, to a place to associate with people of like mind, to social outlets. There's nothing inherently wrong with religion. It is neither good nor evil. Good and evil come in with how we, as humans and individuals, use religion in our personal lives. For some it is a very beneficial institution for whatever reason. For others a tool to subjugate and control. This last part is particularly true in theocracies. Theocracies often pervert and distort a religion so the State can accomplish its goals; we've seen this all through out history. But once freed from ties to the government, a religion can grow and foster and provide many benefits to the individuals who form the congregation. We've seen that in our own country.

    I don't know if you can say religion has caused more harm or more good; there's not a sufficient metric to measure that by. However, it has caused both and that's not a fault of the religion as much as it is fault of the individuals wielding that religion.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #132
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    It gives people hope and a sense of purpose. Religion, has certainly helped me through some rough spots. You can call it lies or a false hope, but God, whether a mirage or not, has helped many people just get through the day.
    I would not call it lies or false hope, but I would doubt that what you describe is religion, but more so to faith in God. That I see as certainly a source of goodness.

  3. #133
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Religion can be very comforting to an individual and many people can gain various things from it. From a place to worship, to a place to associate with people of like mind, to social outlets. There's nothing inherently wrong with religion. It is neither good nor evil. Good and evil come in with how we, as humans and individuals, use religion in our personal lives. For some it is a very beneficial institution for whatever reason. For others a tool to subjugate and control. This last part is particularly true in theocracies. Theocracies often pervert and distort a religion so the State can accomplish its goals; we've seen this all through out history. But once freed from ties to the government, a religion can grow and foster and provide many benefits to the individuals who form the congregation. We've seen that in our own country.

    I don't know if you can say religion has caused more harm or more good; there's not a sufficient metric to measure that by. However, it has caused both and that's not a fault of the religion as much as it is fault of the individuals wielding that religion.
    More to the point, and yes it is the individuals that give the whole system a negative canotation. However, I would argue that faith in a creator and philosophy may bring forth much benefit, whereas the dogmatic subscription to the practices and divisions religion itself propogates, at least in my view, pushes those of faith to trangress against their fellow man.

  4. #134
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    So the good rules are from society, but the stupid ones are from religion?
    Yeah, that's exactly what I said. (insert rolling eyes).

    Read my comments again and if you have anything constructive to say, I'll be here.

  5. #135
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    More to the point, and yes it is the individuals that give the whole system a negative canotation. However, I would argue that faith in a creator and philosophy may bring forth much benefit, whereas the dogmatic subscription to the practices and divisions religion itself propogates, at least in my view, pushes those of faith to trangress against their fellow man.
    Perhaps, but I don't think you can blame religion for that. You have to blame the individuals who have made that choice. Maybe some zealot belief in their religion helps to rationalize their actions, but it's still their actions. There's no gods, so nothing can force a person to behave in one way over another. But if it were not religion, it would be something else. Humans can be very violent and we indulge in that behavior a lot (perhaps well too much). We'll find any reason we can to act out against someone else. If there were no religion, I doubt history would be much different; we'd just have constructed different reasons.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #136
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Yeah, that's exactly what I said. (insert rolling eyes).

    Read my comments again and if you have anything constructive to say, I'll be here.
    Forgive the hyperbole, but your post took the morals that you like, and gave credit to society. The rules you don't like are automatically religious.

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I would not call it lies or false hope, but I would doubt that what you describe is religion, but more so to faith in God. That I see as certainly a source of goodness.
    How is it not religion?
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

  7. #137
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Atheism, the state religion of communism murdered 100,000,000 from 1917 - 1991. Yes, atheism is evil.
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  8. #138
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Please, enlighten me on how peoples were helped through "religion."
    Billions who were part of societies who identify themselves through the organizing principle of their religion. The precepts of those religions spread the ideas of behaving respectfully toward their fellow man. I am not talking about theocracies, but there is a connection between State and Religion.

    Even in this country, the separation of church and state refers to the state being involved in religion (Establishment Clause) not that the religion be involved with the state. As a result, our legal and moral character is shaped by religion.

  9. #139
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    Quote Originally Posted by GayLibertarian View Post
    Atheism, the state religion of communism murdered 100,000,000 from 1917 - 1991. Yes, atheism is evil.
    The State religion of Communism is The State. They enacted anti-theist policies to quell anything which could pose threat to the total power of the State. Atheism had nothing to do with it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #140
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    Re: Religion (not spirituality) has Done More Harm than Good?

    On the note of 'religion is comforting and helps people through the day' . . . maybe, because I never have felt this way, I just can't imagine others feeling this way as well - it's beyond my comprehension. . .I don't get it, so I don't factor it in.

    Take my parents for example (my Dad's a minister). They fight, argue and disagree on everything related to religion, politics, where they're going to live and where my Mom will work. Since my Dad's career always decides when, where they'll move - my Mother has no say. She's become quite resentful of the whole thing, really, they even lived separated for years.

    Happiness? I see none.
    My childhood - was it filled with joy, hope or support? No - we were raised in the Weslyan church and all I remember was being told 'you can't do that, you shouldn't do this' (things like dancing, etc). . .was there a sense of 'community' and so on - no - just people getting together and bickering and fighting with each other and when they did 'get along' it was fake and only on the surface.
    Behind the scenes many religions people (that I knew, personally) were just assholes in the pew - racists and everything else. . . what 'good' thing did they get out of it? I have no clue - I didn't see it - but I know that in Arkansas our black Janitor was called a "nigger" quite a few times in the sanctuary.

    All my years as a child in the church and I saw quite a few horrid things in the church that shouldn't be *in the church* - and why people would go to church and become involved with crap like that and then claim it's somehow a 'good thing to them' is just beyond me.

    So - maybe my view in this thread is because I just don't *get it* and never will. My experiences with religion have all been quite wrong.

    And, admittedly, I'm a very pessimistic person.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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