View Poll Results: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuary schools & daycare

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Thread: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & daycares

  1. #61
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    Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Good argument, James.
    I, for one, feel that the Islamics never did as much as they could to publicly condemn the terrorism, nor do more than just condemn Osama bin Laden but capture and imprison him.
    Maybe I am wrong about this, maybe Islam is fractured into totally separate sects, that the moderates can do nothing.
    I do feel that Islam can do much to improve their public image.
    The reality is, there isn't some monolithic organization for Islam that can stand up and condemn actions. It just doesn't exist like it does for Catholics. Therefore, asking that one do just that is a bit silly. Tons of individual muslims have decried 9/11, there are tons of muslims in the armed forces right now fighting against Islamic terrorism in the middle east. Seriously, what good does it really do to put out a press release saying "shame on you" anyhow?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #62
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    Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    But how often do you see references to his 'wife' in the New Testament?
    how many do you need? Peter was a regular Jewish guy, he was married, had a job, children; Jesus came along, said, hey, drop everything you're doing and come walk around the country with me while i talk to people, he said okay, the rest is history. the only discussion of his actual wife that I'm aware of comes to us from the writings of Clement; the New Testament seems to mention that Peter (along with other apostles and Jesus' Brothers - so probably James as well) is married, talks about his mother in law being healed, and leaves it at that.

    In the early Church, there were priests who were married but they were still called on to maintain a chaste life.
    interesting that they continued to produce children despite their chastity. guess the wives weren't all down with the notion of never getting laid ever again . or women who weren't their wives; i believe it was John XII who was actually killed in flagrento with another mans' wife?

    There are also a handful of married priests in the Church today, but similarly, they are called to maintain a chaste life.
    well yeah. this is a post-ruling environment.

    The early Church was not nearly as centralized as it is today (and the level of centralization today is often misunderstood) and there were different synods and councils accepted by different regions prior to the fourth century.
    this is definitely true.

    Also, keep in mind that while the Church often forbade things in Canon law, it was not uncommon for those in distant regions to not follow its dictates strictly. This was true even to the 16th century and beyond. It doesn't mean the Church condoned it, but there were times when the Church could do little about it.
    ah. those distant regions. like (for example) Rome. how many popes were fathered or grandfathered by popes?

    it had nothing to do with those whole land thing in the Middle Ages that Protestant revisionists have proposed for centuries.
    that (along with indulgences, a host of public abuses by Church officials, etc) was one of the major reasons we split. interstingly, Calvin even blamed priestly celibacy on the well known sexual abuses by Catholic priests.

    Not some scriptural basis, SIGNIFICANT scriptural basis...
    what, I Cor 7? where Paul specifically states that he's not passing on Holy Guidance, but rather trying to provide some common sense given that Jesus is about to come back any day now and the whole world is going to be turned upside down?

    Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy. I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.
    But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none, those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, and those who use this world as not misusing it. For the form of this world is passing away.
    But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. There is[a] a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband. And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction.
    But if any man thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin, if she is past the flower of youth, and thus it must be, let him do what he wishes. He does not sin; let them marry.


    but I'll see you and raise you I Timothy 3 and I Timothy 4:

    A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.


    Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

    as Paul aged, he came to see that the end times were Not Now; and that caused him to shift his view of marriage from a short term approach to one favoring long-term stability.
    Last edited by cpwill; 08-14-10 at 06:13 PM.

  3. #63
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    Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Right, because you know when men are denied sexual relations, what's the first thing they do? Certainly not seek out adult women who might want an affair or go to a prostitute! No, all men seek out young boys.

    Do you realize how ridiculous the idea is that "if only they could marry they'd stop molesting children"? Married people NOW molest children. If you were prohibited from having sex for some reason, would you then go out an prey on children yourself?
    I asked the priest I had to go to for marriage classes why he became a priest. He told me that the thought of having to get married scared the hell out of him and becoming a priest was the honorable way to avoid it in his day.

    Beyond his words, I pretty much intrepreted that to mean, "I'm gay but since I'm a priest, I'm not."

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  4. #64
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    Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

    Should Muslims be allowed to build a mosque near ground zero?

    Should the government get to decide where churches are built?
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  5. #65
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    Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    A few things, Zyph.
    Sure thing. I'm eager to see if anything you bring up actually counters my pointing out that the post you thanked was 100% wrong in stating that I am incorrect in saying the two situations are not directly alike.

    1. Muslims (as a group) did not attack the WTC. Terrorists did. Specifically, Al Qaeda. Saying "Muslims unquestionably DID attack the World Trade Center" is too general a comment to be totally accurate.
    No, but "Muslims" did attack it.

    If I say "Men robbed that liquor store the other night" am I saying men, as a GROUP, robbed the liquor store or am I describing a common trait amongst those that robbed it?

    If I see a bunch of Fundamentalists protesting gay marriage and I say "Look over there, Christians are protesting gay marriage" am I saying that Christians, as an entire GROUP, protest gay marriage are am I describing a common trait amongst those at that protest.

    If I see a bunch of Philly fans beat the **** out of someone outside of Fedex field and I say "Philly fans just beat the **** out of someone" am I saying that Philly Fans, as an entire GROUP, are beating people up or am I describing a common trait of those particular people?

    No, Muslims as a whole did not carry out the attack on 9/11. However, 19+ men, all of which were muslims, carried out an attack in part inspired by their religiously fueled hatred for the rest, in a way that was acceptable to them due to their religious views, on the notion that they were doing a righteous thing in the eyes of their god.

    Simply because you're attempting to literalize my comment by ignoring every ounce of context regarding it doesn't make it incorrect. MUSLIMS attacked the world trade center on 9/11. All muslims? No, the only one inserting that statement is you in a back end attempt to discredit by statement.

    2. If a few Catholics who held extreme views molested children in a day care, how would that reflect on other Catholics? Why should they refrain from opening up their church near said day care.
    I would say that said particular action, on top of the larger history of action, mixed with perhaps public sentiment from a number of widely followed bishops endorsing or giving support to said actions, without much of the Catholic community greatly coming out in vocal and active opposition to them would definitely reflect poorly on catholics as a whole.

    Indeed, I'd argue that it already is. The disdain, joking, and hatred towards Catholics and pedophile jokes is FAR more accepted in the many circles of society than similar actions regarding muslims and terrorists.

    There's a number of people on this forum that I have no doubt in my mind or heart that would laugh their ass off at a catholic pedophile joke but would decry the individual as a bigoted islamophobe if they made a muslim terrorist joke.

    3. How far around the day care would the "no church" dictum go? Next door? A block away? Three blocks away? The next town over? A whole different state? Armenia?
    Problems with hypotheticals is there's little to actually work with. I'll assume you're talking about YOUR hypothetical, not the hypothetical of the OP whose post you thanked when he claimed it was identically accurate in relation to 9/11, that actually have catholics physically molesting kids previously at said day care.

    I'd definitely say it'd be a bit tactless to open up right next to the day care center. If for some reason said day care center somehow magically became what is essentially a national monument that multiple thousands would travel to each year and was in a large city serviced by a subway or metro and with multiple major roads, I'd probably say outside of the four major roads on either side of the day care or outside of the generalized area serviced by the main metro stop for said day care.

    4. What would the limit for building the church be? A year after the molestation occurs? 2 years? 5 years? Nine years? 20 years? 100 years? 15 billion years? Seriously, how long and how far would become acceptable to the people who blame the whole catholic church for the actions of a few extremists?
    Before it wasn't tactless in my mind? Probably would depend on the scale of the molestation and how much it'd be remaining in the minds of the population of the town and/or beyond that. If its something that within a few years most except for those actually involved relatively directly in the situation even remember then yeah, probably a handful of years would be fine. If its something that's going to be remembered or known about by almost every person in that town, even those not even alive when it happened, then probably a good bit longer. If its something that's going to be remembered or known about by about almost everyone in the country...yeah, I'd probably say its going to be quite some time.

    So Tucker, let me ask you something since Goobie's refused to respond...

    How about you answer or counter my statements to him in response to the post you thanked where he attempted to claim the two situations are absolutely "exactly" comparable.

    Or if I'm off base and you were thanking it for a reason other than his statement about how their comparable, then nevermind. However his entire post seemed to be focusing on said claim.

  6. #66
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    Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Should Muslims be allowed to build a mosque near ground zero?

    Should the government get to decide where churches are built?
    answer: nope.


    but simply because something is legal does not make it right, or necessarily wise. and it certainly doesn't cause it to cease being offensive.

  7. #67
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    Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    answer: nope.


    but simply because something is legal does not make it right, or necessarily wise. and it certainly doesn't cause it to cease being offensive.
    Exactly right!
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  8. #68
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    Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Exactly right!
    broken clocks and monkey's banging on typewriters, eh?

  9. #69
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    Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Or if I'm off base and you were thanking it for a reason other than his statement about how their comparable, then nevermind. However his entire post seemed to be focusing on said claim.
    I often thank posts when I see a poster express an opinion that I didn't expect from them (and I'll be 100% honest, I didn't expect jamesrage to express the views he has in this thread).
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  10. #70
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    Re: Should catholics be banned from building churches near elementuaryschools & dayc

    People have right to be pissed off, but to expect 1.5 billion to carry baggage for the actions of 19 is just plain stupid. Yes I understand why people are upset and expect other Muslims to carry this baggage, but 9-11 iwasn't the Cordoba Institute's fault. You are only responsible for your own actions.
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