View Poll Results: FDR's Greatest Mistakes

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60. You may not vote on this poll
  • Seizing people's gold and devaluing currency by 42%

    17 28.33%
  • Outlawing personal ownership of gold

    18 30.00%
  • Huge tax increases

    16 26.67%
  • Tax withholding

    13 21.67%
  • Creation of world's greatest Ponzi scheme

    20 33.33%
  • Minimum wage

    13 21.67%
  • Massive eminent domain seizures (TVA, Oak Ridge, etc.)

    14 23.33%
  • Agitating Japanese into bombing Pearl Harbor

    16 26.67%
  • Incarcerating Japanese-American citizens into concentration camps

    36 60.00%
  • Other (specify)

    15 25.00%
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Thread: FDR's Greatist Blunder

  1. #121
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    Re: FDR's Greatist Blunder

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    And it's the only way to ensure just compensation.
    Sometimes the government needs property you have. If you won't sell them the property, they have the right to take it by force in certain instances (such as roads). This is a neccessary function of government. Since you'd want the highest price you could get for it, the goverment would want it for free, the best way to decide is to sell it at what its market price would be. Emotional considerations shouldn't factor in.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  2. #122
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    Re: FDR's Greatist Blunder

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Sometimes the government needs property you have. If you won't sell them the property, they have the right to take it by force in certain instances (such as roads). This is a neccessary function of government. Since you'd want the highest price you could get for it, the goverment would want it for free, the best way to decide is to sell it at what its market price would be. Emotional considerations shouldn't factor in.
    Why does this only hold true for government then? Say I want to expand my backyard. Well the easiest way to do that would be to buy my neighbor's property. He refuses to sell it, so instead I take it from him and give him the market value as determined by a 3rd party. Is this fair?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #123
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    Re: FDR's Greatist Blunder

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Why does this only hold true for government then? Say I want to expand my backyard. Well the easiest way to do that would be to buy my neighbor's property. He refuses to sell it, so instead I take it from him and give him the market value as determined by a 3rd party. Is this fair?
    The difference is that it is assumed the government is taking it for a valid public reason, like expanding a road or putting up a levee, something that serves the public interest. You wanting to put in a bbq pit doesn't count.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  4. #124
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    Re: FDR's Greatist Blunder

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    The difference is that it is assumed the government is taking it for a valid public reason, like expanding a road or putting up a levee, something that serves the public interest. You wanting to put in a bbq pit doesn't count.
    But how do you determine whether the benefit of said public interest project outweighs the personal loss to the property owner whose property you take?

    What if I want to build a park in my backyard, expanding on my previous example. Am I justified then since the park would benefit the community?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  5. #125
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    Re: FDR's Greatist Blunder

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But how do you determine whether the benefit of said public interest project outweighs the personal loss to the property owner whose property you take?
    If you disagree, you take it to court. Why do you ask questions you should already know the answer to? Take a civics class or something.

    What if I want to build a park in my backyard, expanding on my previous example. Am I justified then since the park would benefit the community?
    ED is one of those powers we leave in the government's hands because it should only be exercized by the collective will of the people, like the court systems
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  6. #126
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    Re: FDR's Greatist Blunder

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    If you disagree, you take it to court. Why do you ask questions you should already know the answer to? Take a civics class or something.
    How can I establish what my subjective value is in dollar terms?

    ED is one of those powers we leave in the government's hands because it should only be exercized by the collective will of the people, like the court systems
    But the government doesn't always represent the collective will, nor can it determine if collective gain outweighs personal loss.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #127
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    Re: FDR's Greatist Blunder

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    How can I establish what my subjective value is in dollar terms?
    You can't. It's subjective, and it will never be agreed on. This is why we go by the objective value. Too bad about your subjective value, its irrelevent.


    But the government doesn't always represent the collective will, nor can it determine if collective gain outweighs personal loss.
    The government of the US, and the susidary governments inside it are made up of people who are either voted in or appointed by those voted in, so I'd say they do represent the collective will. Furthermore, the subjective value of something is not quantifiable, so it should not be factored in.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  8. #128
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    Re: FDR's Greatist Blunder

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    You can't. It's subjective, and it will never be agreed on. This is why we go by the objective value. Too bad about your subjective value, its irrelevent.
    It's not irrelevant, hence why stealing even if you pay market value to the guy you steal from is wrong.

    The government of the US, and the susidary governments inside it are made up of people who are either voted in or appointed by those voted in, so I'd say they do represent the collective will. Furthermore, the subjective value of something is not quantifiable, so it should not be factored in.
    Again I move forward with my example that you didn't respond to. If I wanted to open up a park in my backyard, but needed the house next to me to do it, would I be justified as long as I paid him market value? The park would benefit everyone in the community and they all want it. So should I be allowed?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #129
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    Re: FDR's Greatist Blunder

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It's not irrelevant, hence why stealing even if you pay market value to the guy you steal from is wrong.
    Alright, why is it not irrelevent in what is essentially a forced business deal?

    Again I move forward with my example that you didn't respond to. If I wanted to open up a park in my backyard, but needed the house next to me to do it, would I be justified as long as I paid him market value? The park would benefit everyone in the community and they all want it. So should I be allowed?
    No, because you're not a lawful governing body.
    The Makeout Hobo is real, and does indeed travel around the country in his van and make out with ladies... If you meet the Makeout Hobo, it is customary to greet him with a shot of whiskey and a high five (if you are a dude) or passionate makeouts (if you are a lady).

  10. #130
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    Re: FDR's Greatist Blunder

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    Alright, why is it not irrelevent in what is essentially a forced business deal?
    Because it applies in all other business deals. Part of the right to own property means determining your own subjective value for that property.

    No, because you're not a lawful governing body.
    So if I had the use of force behind me, then I'd be a lawful governing body? Because that's what a lawful governing body ultimately is.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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