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Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

  • Total voters
    154
Bodhisattva said:
I am a liberal conservative, not religious and am for Constitutional equal treatment for all... I know I don't represent the far Right, but the "far" of both sides have serious problems. Only seeing it in one, as Grendal has suggested, displays many of the same problems that he accuses others of.
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amen
and i have to agree, this is way many times when people throw blanket statements around i simply point it out its not fair.
as far as equal rights go and actively fighting for it, out of the top 5 people i know personally 2 are conservative republicans and religious

unfortunately for the right, one certain issues, the bigots have the "squeekiest wheel" and that cause people to wrongly assume that wheel speaks for everyone or even most when it doenst.
 
Bodhisattva said:
And how do you view the Left?
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Same as they always were. There are some extremists. The difference is that, over the last 10 or 12 years, the percentage of the conservatives who've become extremist has exploded. Kind of like the left did in the 60's. A quarter of Republicans self-identify as tea party -- an extremist reactionary movement, and an addition 47% approve of the influence that the TP has on the GOP. 60% want churches more involved in the government, 16% think Rush Limbaugh should have more influence in the party, and another 40% are happy with the influence he has. 16% say he's one of the most important Republican leaders right now.

I don't have statistics on the percentage that think the Democrats are communists, or think that liberals "hate America", or whatever, but the noise has been growing louder for a decade. The 2000's are to the conservatives as the 1960's were to the liberals. At least from my point of view. There was a massive and coordinated propaganda campaign radicalizing these soft-headed little muppets starting some time around the beginning of the invasion of Iraq.

Maybe it looks different from your view, but I've seen more and more conservatives who used to be rational who have become hysterical in the last decade.
 
Grendel said:
Seem like all the right-wingers have this idea about what "nature intended". Nature doesn't "intend" anything. It's not a conscious entity to have intentions. What happens, happens. If it's detrimental to procreation, then it's selected out, eventually. Not because nature "made a mistake" or "didn't intend for that to happen", but because of the simple mechanics of it.

But that's all completely and totally irrelevant to the conversation, anyway. The only thing that's important is that American citizens have the right to marriage. If one American citizen has that right, then all American citizens have that right. That includes the ones that are gay.

If the right-wingers are successful in their drive to set the precedent that the government can carve out classes of Americans to whom certain rights don't apply, they'll be completely dumbfounded when they find themselves in half of the next dozen classes of people who've been relieved of specific rights. If they can say " gays don't have the right to get married" then they can say "fundimentalist right-wing Christians don't have the right to own guns", or whatever. No matter how many times you point out the precedent they're trying to set will some day be used against them, they won't get it until some day when it is used against them.
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I felt the same regarding this issue not long ago at all, but i see a clear trend where this is becoming misguided. It's perfectly fine to berate those who explicitly state they're against equal rights, but we have to be sensitive to the rapidly growing number of self-identified conservatives and theists who support gay rights. It hurts them when we throw around "right wingers" "republicans" "christians" etc. I've done that too and certainly regret it.

Gay marriage support hits new high in Post-ABC poll

A clear *majority* of republicans under 50 support SSM. What this means is it's no longer a political issue. When they say things like they want church more involved in government, we leap to conclusions. But the fact is most theists also support SSM now, so that's not even what they're referring to. We need to get behind this reality and welcome them on board.
 
Quag said:
Irrelevant as it makes no sense in Chinese either
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Do you mean to say, what you were saying is senseless? That is what I thought. But I did not think you would be so candid.
 
Bodhisattva said:
It is normal in that it occurs naturally... even if they have their neurons crossed due to some variable, it is as normal as a boy dog humping a smaller boy dog or some person's leg. Dog boner + human leg are not intended by nature either.
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Animals don't have awareness, hence, they don't even know they're naked, hence, they hump anything obliviously, including inanimate objects. Well, at least everybody agrees that equal rights are mandatory.

As far as what is natural, if your neurons are abnormally crossed causing you to be gay, then I suppose its natural to you, regardless of any rationale that might make sense. But that is akin to someone who gets turned on eating feces and saying its natural because it's natural to THEM. If your life depended on the answer being correct as far as which is natural and which is unnatural, you'd go with penis+penis=natural? Is that your final answer?
 
joG said:
Do you mean to say, what you were saying is senseless? That is what I thought. But I did not think you would be so candid.
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No what you re saying is senseless. But I wouldn't expect you to get that.
 
sKiTzo said:
Animals don't have awareness, hence, they don't even know they're naked, hence, they hump anything obliviously, including inanimate objects. Well, at least everybody agrees that equal rights are mandatory.

As far as what is natural, if your neurons are abnormally crossed causing you to be gay, then I suppose its natural to you, regardless of any rationale that might make sense. But that is akin to someone who gets turned on eating feces and saying its natural because it's natural to THEM. If your life depended on the answer being correct as far as which is natural and which is unnatural, you'd go with penis+penis=natural? Is that your final answer?
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Good points... I would say that it isn't normal in that most people are attracted to the same sex but it is normal in that it occurs enough as to not make it unnatural.
 
chromium said:
I felt the same regarding this issue not long ago at all, but i see a clear trend where this is becoming misguided. It's perfectly fine to berate those who explicitly state they're against equal rights, but we have to be sensitive to the rapidly growing number of self-identified conservatives and theists who support gay rights. It hurts them when we throw around "right wingers" "republicans" "christians" etc. I've done that too and certainly regret it.

Gay marriage support hits new high in Post-ABC poll

A clear *majority* of republicans under 50 support SSM. What this means is it's no longer a political issue. When they say things like they want church more involved in government, we leap to conclusions. But the fact is most theists also support SSM now, so that's not even what they're referring to. We need to get behind this reality and welcome them on board.
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exactly i dont know why some people no republicans and republicans constantly blanket all of the right as being against it. The majority of Americans are for it, the majority has to come from some where lol
 
If there is a Lord, he would not be as petty and discriminatory as the ignorant would have you all believe.

Those who discriminate against gay marriage are diseased - their mind is broken and shallow, devoid of the Lord's holy guidance.

It is our duty as rational beings, full of the Lord's holy guidance, to love those that discriminate even while they endeavor in their evil
crusade against all that is right, just, and natural.

We must love them and pray that they are someday saved.

The Lord will soon see that equality becomes reality.
 
AGENT J said:
Morals – your morals are subjective, shouldn’t be forced on others and your morals aren’t effected one bit, you still get to believe in them as you see fit. Meaningless and debunked
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Many people, including me, view ethics objectively. Also, why must the people who vote yes have to explains, but people who vote no don't have to?

On topic: No, it's not right.
 
Robbie Loucks said:
Many people, including me, view ethics objectively.
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for yourself, but theres no such thing in the world

my morals i view objectively for ME but they arent globally objective
 
sKiTzo said:
Animals don't have awareness, hence, they don't even know they're naked, hence, they hump anything obliviously, including inanimate objects. Well, at least everybody agrees that equal rights are mandatory.

As far as what is natural, if your neurons are abnormally crossed causing you to be gay, then I suppose its natural to you, regardless of any rationale that might make sense. But that is akin to someone who gets turned on eating feces and saying its natural because it's natural to THEM. If your life depended on the answer being correct as far as which is natural and which is unnatural, you'd go with penis+penis=natural? Is that your final answer?
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The topic of this thread is about same sex marriage, not homosexual procreation.
 
AGENT J said:
for yourself, but theres no such thing in the world

my morals i view objectively for ME but they arent globally objective
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Never mind, I'm going to assume you haven't studied moral realism and/or ethical subjectivism.
 
Robbie Loucks said:
Never mind, I'm going to assume you haven't studied moral realism and/or ethical subjectivism.
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im familiar but i simply deal with facts and reality, philosophy on those matters dont appeal to me when dealing with laws and rights
 
sKiTzo said:
Animals don't have awareness, hence, they don't even know they're naked, hence, they hump anything obliviously, including inanimate objects.
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For the record, humans hump inanimate objects. For example, blow up dolls, fleshlights, dildos, vibrators, and even some household appliances.

If your life depended on the answer being correct as far as which is natural and which is unnatural, you'd go with penis+penis=natural? Is that your final answer?
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Yup. Why? Because sex for humans is about more than just procreation. You go anywhere in the world or to any point in human history and you will find examples of homosexuality. It is natural in the sense that is is part of the human condition. That does not mean it is moral. Things like murder and rape are also part of the human condition.
 
AGENT J said:
exactly i dont know why some people no republicans and republicans constantly blanket all of the right as being against it. The majority of Americans are for it, the majority has to come from some where lol
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I think what's misleading about it is so many repub politicians still make bigoted comments and it's in fact in the republican platform to oppose SSM, but those politicians don't necessarily care about the under 50 crowd. As time goes by, that under 50s will be the republican base and the politicians will be forced to change.
 
AGENT J said:
exactly i dont know why some people no republicans and republicans constantly blanket all of the right as being against it. The majority of Americans are for it, the majority has to come from some where lol
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I think what's misleading about it is so many repub politicians still make bigoted comments and it's in fact in the republican platform to oppose SSM, but those politicians don't necessarily care about the under 50 crowd. As time goes by, that under 50s will be the republican base and the politicians will be forced to change.
 
chromium said:
I think what's misleading about it is so many repub politicians still make bigoted comments and it's in fact in the republican platform to oppose SSM, but those politicians don't necessarily care about the under 50 crowd. As time goes by, that under 50s will be the republican base and the politicians will be forced to change.
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well thats thin about politics today, the squeaky wheel is the loudest, the nuts get the most press and its easy for some to just assume a group is like thier loudest mouth pieces.
 
Almost 4 years, 3100+ posts, approx 48,000 views and still not one legit reason to deny gays equal rights and to stop SSM.
 
AGENT J said:
Almost 4 years, 3100+ posts, approx 48,000 views and still not one legit reason to deny gays equal rights and to stop SSM.
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Are you expecting one? I've been doing this debate for 7+ years. I haven't seen one.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Are you expecting one? I've been doing this debate for 7+ years. I haven't seen one.
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Nope but it would be interesting if one actually had merit of course im not holding my breath or betting that will ever happen :)
 
AGENT J said:
Almost 4 years, 3100+ posts, approx 48,000 views and still not one legit reason to deny gays equal rights and to stop SSM.
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You mean because someone thinks its icky is not a valid reason?
 
Quag said:
You mean because someone thinks its icky is not a valid reason?
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Opinion is never a valid reason for anything that affects other people that much.
 
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