View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

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  • No

    177 55.31%
  • Yes. please explain.

    143 44.69%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

  1. #671
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you are one silly man....please restrain yourself...from making statements like this again, its embarrassing
    im sure people laughing at your posts and destroying them does embarrass you, thats not my concern though

    the solution is simple though, in the future you can simply be honest and dont make stuff up and or admit factual mistakes. Let me know if you need more help.

    good luck
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  2. #672
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    clearly! ......you are insecure......."breaking off communication in this thread with you"

    translation: you choose to deflect when you have been proved factually wrong AGAIN

    thats exactly what i thought you would do
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  3. #673
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) and the opposite is also true when people use religion they can find a way to condemn anythign. But that is pointless to this topic.
    2.) you are free to have those opinion but again its meaningless to the topic at hand
    3.) see #2
    4.) also meaningless to the discussion
    5, yes you gave one and it majorly fails because your subjective opinion of sinful is not how the country, laws, freedoms and rights work.
    6.) LMAO id bet my life this never happens in this country

    well let me know if you have anythign else since these failed
    Nice try. I looked back at the OP and saw where you wrote: "Also for some reference Ill try to list the general reasons people thought of that have been thoroughly debunked. - Religion/god/bible – Meaningless and debunked."

    Very convenient. You claim God/religion/the Bible have been debunked. That's a blowhard myth right up there with Nietzsche's blathering that God is dead.

    I think what's really happening is that you conveniently preempted the very arguments that you knew you couldn't win, and that bust your argument and position wide open. That God is alive and will Judge the people and nations that engage in institutionalized sexual immorality is the winning argument against gay marriage.

    But that, of course, is my view on the subject!

  4. #674
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    1.)Nice try. I looked back at the OP and saw where you wrote: "Also for some reference Ill try to list the general reasons people thought of that have been thoroughly debunked. - Religion/god/bible – Meaningless and debunked."
    2.)Very convenient. You claim God/religion/the Bible have been debunked. That's a blowhard myth right up there with Nietzsche's blathering that God is dead.
    3.) I think what's really happening is that you conveniently preempted the very arguments that you knew you couldn't win, and that bust your argument and position wide open.
    4.) That God is alive and will Judge the people and nations that engage in institutionalized sexual immorality is the winning argument against gay marriage.

    But that, of course, is my view on the subject!
    1.) nothing was "tried" please explain what fantasy you are making up in your head you are referring too
    but oin i side not yes those reasons have been clealry and factually debunked when it comes to legally STOPPING it
    2.) wow talk about posting lies, i never said the bible itself is debunked. please try to keep up.
    i said they are no reasons to stop gays from having equal rights, your mistake
    3.) 100% false, see above, you lose again. Also i myself am chrisitian. Please feel free to make more stuff up.
    4.) nope, this is a failed argument because ameican is a free country and your subjective morals and opinions arent to be forced on others

    so again i repeat
    well let me know if you have anythign else since these failed
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  5. #675
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    1st Amendment doesn't mean there can't be a law related to a religion. Otherwise murder wouldn't be illegal. Nice try though.
    murder being against the law ha nothing to do with religion.

    Nice try indeed.

  6. #676
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    excuse me ....i did not enter into your discussion, i was address first with questions and i responded, that agent j words reminded me of something that is ALL

    so trying to say i know nothing of your discuss is ridiculous, because i have not entered into it here .

    so you little exercise of trying to prove me as i know nothing is your own failure here.
    You still don't post valid arguments and you still don't understand the discussion I don't really care that you were in out prior, i am going by your posts.

    And you still completely failed to prove your case. And this proves your unwillingness to accept your defeat.

    The post i am responding to, your righteous indignation, equally meaningless.

  7. #677
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    I think what's really happening is that you conveniently preempted the very arguments that you knew you couldn't win, and that bust your argument and position wide open. That God is alive and will Judge the people and nations that engage in institutionalized sexual immorality is the winning argument against gay marriage.
    Is god judging you for your own actions, or for the society you live in? If you don't sin or whatever, but someone near you does, do you really think that you'll be penalized in the cosmic American Idol contest to get into heaven for not stopping that person? Really? I mean, didn't Lot get to leave before his home got hit by the flaming hail or whatever burned the city down? Isn't the whole thing based on how much faith you have? What does that have to do with anyone else? How is it consistent with free will and judgment for how you use that free will leading to judgment if you have to pay for the choices of other people? I mean, if you actually think that your soul is on the line (hint: it isn't), then I can see caring about stopping other people from being gay and marrying and enjoying their lives, but why would you think that?

    But that, of course, is my view on the subject!
    Your view doesn't even make internal sense! Arguments about god and your religion being completely made up (hint: they are) don't even need to factor in. The god that you claim cares about our sex lives doesn't hold us responsible for what other people do! Except for killing your children because you did something wrong, but that's because god thinks that children (and women) are property and god is cool with punishing you by destroying your property. But either way, you and your neighbor (barring god-approved slavery) are not each other's property and so neither of you can affect each other's soul meter.

    Yes, lots of what you might consider cheap shots. Don't let that detract from the overall message. Even if you believe this nonsense (and it is nonsense), the nonsense you believe doesn't require you to stop other people from doing things that piss god off. It only requires you not to do those things.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  8. #678
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Tolerance is a fundamental pillar of our society. It is an absolutely essential element required for millions of people to live together in peace. This absolutely should be taught in schools.

    Kids should learn that they should be responsible for themselves, and that what others do, be they homosexuals, heterosexuals, christians, atheists, blacks, whites, etc., is none of their business, as every person has an equal right to our society and of their own way of life.
    I am the one arguing that education should include moral judgment and values.

  9. #679
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    There are ways to discuss all of these things without presenting value judgments. Is tyranny EFFECTIVE? What are the results? Why do people resist it? One can teach this information without saying tyranny is good or bad.
    But that is ridiculous. Tyranny is unacceptable because it is a moral evil. If you are not going to teach kids that basic moral fact, then you shouldn't teach them anything at all.
    One can discuss the destructive nature of human rights violations, and why they are problematic. Further, stating the current moral culture in the US does not support the behavior of countries like North Korea, does not present values, but a description of values. One can discuss the history of values without making value judgments. That certainly is education.
    But by avoiding the moral issue as to why have rights at all, you are doing an immeasurable disservice not only to the kids you pretend to be teaching, but to the concept of individual rights itself. If you aren't going to teach the moral superiority of the concept of individual rights, you should not address the subject at all.



    No, ernst was wrong. If a school teaches that homosexuality is normal, non-dysfunctional behavior, the school is not making a moral judgment. When you say "normal MORAL behavior" you are adding something that I never stated and have clearly commented that I would be against. If, however the school does as I said, and teaches that homosexuality is normal, non-dysfunctional behavior, that is not a moral judgment and I am unconcerned if parents like or do not like that. It's imparting information. If parents believe that information is against their morals and values, too bad. Remove their kids. If, however, morals WERE being presented, I could understand their issue.
    Schools should not be teaching anything at all about homosexuality. It is a political agenda. Not an educational one.

  10. #680
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it? (PART II)

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    I said teaching a standard moral code is worthless, since it will always contradict the moral codes of the majority; it will not contradict with the majority of the morals that the majority believes. Everyone will have one or two points that they disagree with; the problem is that's all that's needed to spark controversy. We've probably filled up several textbooks worth of debate on this one conflicting moral alone.

    That said, we all know that morals should be taught and that there is a subset of the range of moral codes that is essentially standard. By itself, this is simply not what anyone would call their moral code, so I don't consider it to be one. But, things like empathy, tolerance, and the golden rule are essential to every moral code I know of. There should be no debate on whether we teach tolerance in school, since it's not a moral that conflicts with any moral codes. We should teach select universal morals in school, and all that stems from them, but not any specific moral codes. For example, it would be wrong to teach Christian morality in school, but I expect the golden rule to be taught in school, even though that is one moral found in the Christian moral code. That's what I mean, if I wasn't clear before; we should teach a core set of morals, but not entire codes. The nuances and specifics of the different codes should be taught at home or in places of worship, where there is no conflict.

    There is an inherent contradiction to the Abrahamic moral code that is the source of this debate; you can't teach someone to tolerate human diversity and then teach them to shun people for being different. Since almost all codes contain the first part, and only a few emphasize the second, society should emphasize the first; that creates the minimum of moralistic contradictions.
    I think our disagreement lies in your acceptance of the existence of government schools and my rejection of them. People should be free to send their children to those schools that instill the moral and values that the parents want instilled, not what the state wants them to think.

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