View Poll Results: Do you have a positive or negative view of Michael Moore?

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  • Positive

    19 31.67%
  • Negative

    41 68.33%
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Thread: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

  1. #71
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    I hold a negative view about Micheal Moore, because he is uninformed and very often distorts the truth or even lies. The problem is, a lot of people believe him, especially in many people in Europe think Moore describes America in accurate way. Also many Americans end up thinking that everything is so much better in Europe, which isn't true at all.

    For instance when he went to Cuba, was sent to a hospital for foreigners and was given first class treatment. In real Cuba, the health care is terrible, but a lot of people got fooled into thinking that the average Cuban get the same treatment as Moore did.

    YouTube - ‪Michael Moore in Norway‬‎
    Also, since I'm originally from Norway, I can tell many of the lies of the clip in Norway.
    1. He didn't go to Norway , because it was too good to be true.
    - Actually he didn't go there because Norway is an oil country, and that would discredit him.

    2. Buy you a car if you have trouble using public transportation.
    - Nope, what in reality happens is that you can a voucher of a few taxi trips per year if you have trouble using public transportation and can't use a car. Anyway, who can use a car, but can't use public transportation?

    3. Rank number 1 in HDI, hence they are in the top of literacy, education, health care
    - Bull****, in health care WHO does not give Norway very high ranking. Education, Norway is below average in every single international survey and is not doing well at all. Actually HDI has only three factors that distingush western countries, retirement age, GDP per capita, and school enrolment which is totally irrelevant for western countries. And since Norway does better in GDP per capita (because of oil) and school enrolment, then Norway is number 1 in HDI.

    4. They are ahead of the rest of the world in renewable energies.
    - Not really, Norway does have a lot of hydropower, but that is just luck with the geographics and low population. But other than that, most European countries are doing much better.

    5. Oh.. and I love how he is so happy about the prison camp. I don't know about you, but I would like to punish the criminals as well. Also, I'm sure that place is not as fun in the winter and when it is raining. I mean the average weather over on the west coast is around 18C in the summer and 2C in the winter and it rains all the time. Evidently all of his pictures were from sunny warm days in Norway.

    Also he didn't mention.
    1. Police protection is very weak, even when you know the suspect and have evidence, it is very common for police to dismiss you case. Actually there is an unwritten rule that they do not take cases worth less than 20000 dollars.
    2. Long health care lines, also for important stuff like cancer, similar to every single country that has public health care system. Doesn't mean that US shouldn't have a public health care system, but it's not perfect.
    3. The broken education system
    4. The high taxes.
    5. And the high living standards might have something to do with all of the oil.

    It's very clear that Moore distorts facts, and he only presents the what's is good about social democratic systems and bad about the American system.

  2. #72
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Sound and Fury is an example of a documentary that can admired, even with its limitation. It approached the controversy from perhaps one angle more than another, but gave a damn good shake at the other angle. Then, years later, the creators made a follow-up film, which may have turned the conclusion of the first film upside down.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    I think he's a disgusting fat ass, America-hating, terrorist-coddling traitor whose 15 minutes are WAY over.

  4. #74
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Quote Originally Posted by chickie View Post
    I think he's a disgusting fat ass, America-hating, terrorist-coddling traitor whose 15 minutes are WAY over.
    Based on this thread and the fact that people are still talking about him? His 15 mins are far from over. I cannot wait for his next work of brilliance to come out.
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  5. #75
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Which many would that be? And how long ago was "recently?"
    For starters, Spain was a totalitarian state up until the 1970s. Unified Germany was only a free, independent state since the 1990s. France, IMHO, was borderline totalitarian with de Gaulle in power.

  6. #76
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    1. I understand why you are annoyed by people who interpret Moore's films as the absolute truth. I understand why people are annoyed that Moore insists that everything he says is the absolute truth and reinforces that flawed notion when his fans express it. But people are responsible for their own handle on the truth or lack thereof, and Moore's job as a director is to make a film that moves and entertains people. Again, though, I see where you and many others are coming from.
    2. Socialism is absolutely nothing like fascism. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say because you states that socialism and fascism are similar and then you say that communist totalitariansm and fascist totalitarianism have very little in common... did I read that wrong? I'm a bit confused by the point you're trying to make.

    I think I may not have stated my point very well, either. What I was trying to say is this: Michael Moore is very consistent with his themes, which are about holding wealthy and powerful people accountable for their corruption (with a bias leaning left as we all know) and prohibiting corporations, special interests, and the media from taking the reigns over public policies ranging from gun control to health care and foreign policy. He wants the federal government to keep these sectors in check and believes they have failed to do so and it has been harmful to millions of Americans. Equating this approach to endorsing totalitarianism is more disingenuous than anything Moore has ever accused his opponents of.
    1. IMHO, very little is "absolute truth." Mathematics is the only universal truth. With that said, there needs to be just a bit of accuracy to a documentary in order for it to have credibility. Moore is basically a lobbyist who promotes a special interest group. His films fuel more legislation that takes away from the individual rather than empowering the individual. And yes, I said it twice in two different ways. The similarities between fascism and communism (as they have been historically practiced on a wide scale) far outweigh the differences. Both are totalitarian, statist regimes that seek to empower government (or public/collective) control over individual citizens. In these regimes, the basic motive is to always empower the government to make the day-to-day decisions that would normally be left to the individual in a free society. Read the history of Mussolini's economic policy. The fascist governments wanted to nationalize nearly the entire economy in order to control the average citizen. The same is true of the Soviet Union (the only major difference was their language and the scapegoats they used). The easiest way to control your subjects is to control the economy. The opposite of fascism is not communism, but freedom. The opposite of communism is not fascism, but freedom. This is because the fundamental structure of each tyrannical regime is totalitarianism (or simply, the supreme control of one party/person over the entire citizenry).

    As for Moore, how do you expect the federal government to do the job of "keeping these sectors in check" when they have historically done the exact opposite? You want government to control business? No? You just want government to regulate and monitor business? That requires that you get merge governmental forces with business forces. In a nice little package, the more you have the government regulating business, the closer you are to a corporatist state. If corporatism is the merge of economics and state, shouldn't we ideally separate the two systems for the same reason we separate church and state? We don't want certain religions to benefit from governmental charity over other churches, just like we shouldn't be subsidizing one corporation over another.

  7. #77
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Mussolini created Facism as direct opposition to Communism, he advocated a strong social class system, he even stated that Facism should be called Corporatism "because it is a merger of state and corporate power”.
    Communism seeks to abolish social classes, it seeks to abolish corporate power, it was only with the corruptions in both ideologies that the similarites existed.
    I've already responded to this in an earlier post. Corporatism is, in fact, the merger of state and BUSINESS power. What is easiest way to form a corporatist state? You simply set up the government so that it controls, and manipulates (or regulates) the market. You don't want corporatism? Then you should reject government regulation, oversight, quotas, tariffs, preferential tax treatment, and subsidies. The best way to promote a corporatist state is to get government and businesses to work together. How are we doing that today? By granting some businesses preferetial tax treatment, by granting other businesses subsidies, by empowering unions who monopolize the labor force, by regulation, by tariffs, by guaranteed loans, by bailouts, etc. TAKE ALL GOVERNMENTAL HANDS OFF BUSINESS AND YOU WILL FINALLY SEE AN END TO CORPORATISM. You want more corporatism? Just nationalize the economy, just like Mussolini did.

  8. #78
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Based on this thread and the fact that people are still talking about him? His 15 mins are far from over. I cannot wait for his next work of brilliance to come out.
    Sure, he is still famous. But he is losing his credit, because he distort facts. Also, how is his work a work of briliance? I don't like anyone on either side who misrepresent the truth completly, neither Glenn Beck or Micheal Moore.

  9. #79
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    . TAKE ALL GOVERNMENTAL HANDS OFF BUSINESS AND YOU WILL FINALLY SEE AN END TO CORPORATISM. You want more corporatism? Just nationalize the economy, just like Mussolini did.
    We saw the result of taking all government hands of of business right here in the USA back in the 19th. century.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  10. #80
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    I’d rather have the option for ‘other.’
    I went with negative because although Moore raises some good points, he follows the wrong path when he raises such points.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

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