View Poll Results: Do you have a positive or negative view of Michael Moore?

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Thread: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

  1. #61
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Yes, I know very well the difference between socialism and fascism. Do you? Do you know how similar they are? Have you actually read anything in regards to Mussolini's economic policies? Do you know why Hitler and Stalin were so much alike? Do you know why the Nazi party contained (at various times) the words "worker's party" and "national SOCIALIST?" The differences between the totalitarian communist countries and the totalitarian fascist countries are quite limited in comparison to their similarities.
    Mussolini created Facism as direct opposition to Communism, he advocated a strong social class system, he even stated that Facism should be called Corporatism "because it is a merger of state and corporate power”.
    Communism seeks to abolish social classes, it seeks to abolish corporate power, it was only with the corruptions in both ideologies that the similarites existed.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    From what I have seen from this website, it looks pretty legit.

    MOOREWATCH - Watching Michael Moore's every move

    I am not a fan of Mr. Moore
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  3. #63
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    What is your overall opinion of Michael Moore, his work, and why?
    He's a very talented documentary filmmaker. I don't always agree with his point of view, but he's combined propaganda and satire in a very unique way -- making himself the anti-hero. His films are part expose/investigation and part political cartoon--making fun of his opposition.

    As a media professional and a fan of great documentary filmmakers like Wiseman and Morris, I appreciate Moore's work for what it is--propaganda, or a non-fiction film designed to sway your point of view. You take it with a grain of salt.

    Bowling for Columbine is his best work, a brilliant piece on American Gun Culture. It wasn't an anti-gun piece, more a portrait of America at the end of the 90's, stubborn, passionate, often too proud for our own good... James Nichols bedroom to Charolton Heston's game room, so well done.

    Sicko was also extremely well done. -- People too often take his points as absolutes and instead just thought-provoking questions.

    Capitalism was flawed but still better than most political stuff out there.

    There was one really good documentary about Michael Moore--it was honest enough to show both sides, his critics and his admirers, what he does well and why people like him, and how he plays fast and loose with the timing of events and framing of an argument. Like an attorney making his closing argument, Moore presents the best evidence to help his case and leaves out the rest. Grain of salt, just like fox news.

  4. #64
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Worse than Beck? How so?
    Michael Moore is a lot more clever than Beck, in the end though, they both do things to appeal to their target audience in malicious ways.

    Moore comes to a conclusion and then finds evidence to support it.
    It's a bit of conformation bias with a mix of white and black propaganda.

    He rarely, if ever, includes information that puts his favored policies in a negative light.
    That's called lying by omission.

    If anyone thinks his work is either a documentary or truthful, you have been duped.
    Documentaries are investigative and do not purposefully intend to put something in a bad light.
    They are meant to show what is, not what the creator wants it to be.

    In my opinion he is a scum bag of the highest order, at least Beck has openly stated that his show is for entertainment only.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 08-10-10 at 01:53 AM.
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    I find him highly biased, but like with most people, there is some truth to the things he says. I approach him with a critical eye in everything he says though.

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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    From what I have seen from this website, it looks pretty legit.

    MOOREWATCH - Watching Michael Moore's every move

    I am not a fan of Mr. Moore
    Did you know Michael Moore paid the guy that runs that money so that his wife could get surgery that his insurance couldn't cover, because Moore was afraid that the site would go down and he loves to read it?
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

  7. #67
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    He's the left's version of Ann Coulter. I just watched Capitalism: A Love Story and couldn't even pick out his arguments, and this coming from a communist. I can't stand him.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If anyone thinks his work is either a documentary or truthful, you have been duped.
    Documentaries are investigative and do not purposefully intend to put something in a bad light.
    They are meant to show what is, not what the creator wants it to be.
    It's not really true that documentaries don't purposefully intend to put something in a bad light. Look at The Thin Blue Line by Errol Morris. It's a documentary that's meant to skewer the Texas justice system for wrongly convicting a man of a crime he didn't commit. It's regarded as one of the greatest documentaries ever made and actually resulted in the conviction being overturned.

    Capturing the Friedmans is another example of a great documentary that attacks the justice system for wrongly convicting people accused of child molestation. The film argues that the facts are unclear and the son, who was sent to prison for ten years, was innocent of all charges. The reality of the situation is that the circumstances surrounding the case were not as clear cut in favor of the defendents as portrayed in the film. It's still great.

    Whether or not documentarians have an obligation to be impartial is disputed, but one thing that's clear is that when they are impartial, they are less entertaining. You can't blame Moore for trying to make entertaining films, but your complaint about him insisting to portray the straight facts is a valid one.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    It's not really true that documentaries don't purposefully intend to put something in a bad light. Look at The Thin Blue Line by Errol Morris. It's a documentary that's meant to skewer the Texas justice system for wrongly convicting a man of a crime he didn't commit. It's regarded as one of the greatest documentaries ever made and actually resulted in the conviction being overturned.

    Capturing the Friedmans is another example of a great documentary that attacks the justice system for wrongly convicting people accused of child molestation. The film argues that the facts are unclear and the son, who was sent to prison for ten years, was innocent of all charges. The reality of the situation is that the circumstances surrounding the case were not as clear cut in favor of the defendents as portrayed in the film. It's still great.

    Whether or not documentarians have an obligation to be impartial is disputed, but one thing that's clear is that when they are impartial, they are less entertaining. You can't blame Moore for trying to make entertaining films, but your complaint about him insisting to portray the straight facts is a valid one.
    The definition of documentary is,

    1. Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
    2. Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

    Notice number 2.
    Now you can document anything but in order to remain legitimate and fair, you must include all known factual information.
    Moore does not do this.

    He specifically paints one side as good and the other as bad.
    It's obvious and his films are not documentaries, they are political films.

    I bet dollars to donuts that if Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, etc made a fictional documentary, as Moore does.
    No one, except the most partisan, would take it as serious objective information.

    I can't believe people don't see through this load of crap.

    Edit add: I understand he wants them to be entertaining in order to make a buck but they shouldn't be called documentaries.
    That terms implies that the information is objective to some degree, which it isn't.
    He makes political films, that's it.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 08-10-10 at 03:45 AM.
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    Re: Do you have a positive or negative view of MICHAEL MOORE and WHY...

    I hold a negative view about Micheal Moore, because he is uninformed and very often distorts the truth or even lies. The problem is, a lot of people believe him, especially in many people in Europe think Moore describes America in accurate way. Also many Americans end up thinking that everything is so much better in Europe, which isn't true at all.

    For instance when he went to Cuba, was sent to a hospital for foreigners and was given first class treatment. In real Cuba, the health care is terrible, but a lot of people got fooled into thinking that the average Cuban get the same treatment as Moore did.

    YouTube - ‪Michael Moore in Norway‬‎
    Also, since I'm originally from Norway, I can tell many of the lies of the clip in Norway.
    1. He didn't go to Norway , because it was too good to be true.
    - Actually he didn't go there because Norway is an oil country, and that would discredit him.

    2. Buy you a car if you have trouble using public transportation.
    - Nope, what in reality happens is that you can get some voucher for a few taxi trips per year if you have trouble using public transportation and can't use a car. Anyway, who can use a car, but can't use public transportation?

    3. Rank number 1 in HDI, hence they are in the top of literacy, education, health care
    - Bull****, in health care WHO does not give Norway very high ranking. Education, Norway is below average in every single international survey and is not doing well at all. Actually HDI has only three factors that distingush western countries, retirement age, GDP per capita, and school enrolment which is totally irrelevant for western countries. And since Norway does better in GDP per capita (because of oil) and school enrolment, then Norway is number 1 in HDI.

    4. They are ahead of the rest of the world in renewable energies.
    - Not really, Norway does have a lot of hydropower, but that is just luck with the geographics and low population. But other than that, most European countries are doing much better.

    5. Oh.. and I love how he is so happy about the prison camp. I don't know about you, but I would like to punish the criminals as well. Also, I'm sure that place is not as fun in the winter and when it is raining. I mean the average weather over on the west coast is around 18C in the summer and 2C in the winter and it rains all the time. Evidently all of his pictures were from sunny warm days in Norway.

    Also he didn't mention.
    1. Police protection is very weak, even when you know the suspect and have evidence, it is very common for police to dismiss you case. Actually there is an unwritten rule that they do not take cases worth less than 20000 dollars. Yes, the murder rate is pretty low, but not lowest, but other types of crime isn't. Actually the number of criminal reports in the capital Oslo, is 4 times as high as New York. It's not as peaceful as it might sound like.
    2. Long health care lines, also for important stuff like cancer, similar to every single country that has public health care system. Doesn't mean that US shouldn't have a public health care system, but it's not perfect.
    3. The broken education system
    4. The high taxes.
    5. And the high living standards might have something to do with all of the oil.

    It's very clear that Moore distorts facts, and he only presents the what's is good about social democratic systems and bad about the American system.
    Last edited by Camlon; 08-10-10 at 04:41 AM.

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