View Poll Results: What are your views on euthanasia, assisted suicide, suicide and attempted suicide?

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  • I support it.

    22 53.66%
  • I'm against it.

    4 9.76%
  • It depends.

    14 34.15%
  • Other

    1 2.44%
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Thread: Your views on euthanisia, assisted suicide, suicide and attempted suicide.

  1. #51
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    Re: Your views on euthanisia, assisted suicide, suicide and attempted suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    We disagree, Redress. I think anyone should be able to voluntarily commit suicide with assistance. This is especially true of those with psychological illness, as let's face it, they aren't curable only treatable. The only concern I have is for a psychologically disturbed patient to be under the influence of someone else encouraging they volunteer. SO there are rules:

    As stated earlier in the thread...
    Terminal patient: after a timely review and psychological interview for intent.
    Minors: with a review, a psychological interview and parental or guardian consent
    All other individuals: a review and psychological interview.

    The psychological interview is to allow psychologically afflicted patients to pass. It is to eliminate external influence on the decision.
    The degree with which I disagree with this post knows no bounds. If someone has a psychiatric illness and wants to commit suicide, their desire to commit suicide is a symptom of that illness. It is unethical to treat an illness by encouraging the continuation of a symptom that will cause that patient harm. No ethical psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, or any other mental health professional would sign off on this. It would be like giving an alcoholic a lethal amount of alcohol, or a cancer patient some plutonium.

    I also reject the statement that psychological illnesses are only treatable. That's like saying that cancer patients are only treatable. Both disorders can be in remission and not reoccur. One does not treat an illness by making a major symptom worse.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #52
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    Re: Your views on euthanisia, assisted suicide, suicide and attempted suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Clinical depression does not pass. However it can be reduced to the point of being asymptomatic(I believe that is the appropriate word...working from memory), ie the person does not feel depressed. Being in depression is not a day to day thing, it is every single day. Thankfully, in many cases, SSRI's and other meds can help. CC is the professional expert on the topic, and I am sure he will be along at some point and expand/correct this.
    I would say that this is pretty accurate. SSRI's and therapy combined can make serious depression asymptomatic. Depression is very treatable. Assisted suicide should never be an option for those who suffer from any psychiatric disorder. Their disorder makes it impossible for them to make a decision solely based on rationality.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #53
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    Re: Your views on euthanisia, assisted suicide, suicide and attempted suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The degree with which I disagree with this post knows no bounds. If someone has a psychiatric illness and wants to commit suicide, their desire to commit suicide is a symptom of that illness. It is unethical to treat an illness by encouraging the continuation of a symptom that will cause that patient harm. No ethical psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, or any other mental health professional would sign off on this. It would be like giving an alcoholic a lethal amount of alcohol, or a cancer patient some plutonium.

    I also reject the statement that psychological illnesses are only treatable. That's like saying that cancer patients are only treatable. Both disorders can be in remission and not reoccur. One does not treat an illness by making a major symptom worse.
    I understand what you are saying - especially since I have been there myself and am currently in "remission". However, I think that this decision ought to be a personal choice, for whatever reason: psychological, economic, terminal illness, or otherwise sound body and mind. It's a personal choice.

  4. #54
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    Re: Your views on euthanisia, assisted suicide, suicide and attempted suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I understand what you are saying - especially since I have been there myself and am currently in "remission". However, I think that this decision ought to be a personal choice, for whatever reason: psychological, economic, terminal illness, or otherwise sound body and mind. It's a personal choice.
    Suicidal ideation is a symptom of several psychological disorders. One cannot make an informed personal choice when that person is in the throws of that disorder. The illness is treatable. One does not accept the decision to feed into a symptom when that person cannot make a clear decision on that issue. The illness blinds their ability to do so. No way should this EVER occur with psychological disorders. I understand your struggles. Doesn't change my view one bit.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #55
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    Re: Your views on euthanisia, assisted suicide, suicide and attempted suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Suicidal ideation is a symptom of several psychological disorders. One cannot make an informed personal choice when that person is in the throws of that disorder. The illness is treatable. One does not accept the decision to feed into a symptom when that person cannot make a clear decision on that issue. The illness blinds their ability to do so. No way should this EVER occur with psychological disorders. I understand your struggles. Doesn't change my view one bit.
    I understand that psychological disorders can create the symptom of suicidal ideation and that that results in the judgement of the afflicted to be unable to make a clear decision. I think it would also make the afflicted subject to suggestion from parents, friends, other. I am wary of suggestibility. I see your point on clouded decision making.

    For a person who is not afflicted with a psychological disorder - would you allow that they can make a sound decision in this matter and be allowed to commit assisted suicide?

  6. #56
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    Re: Your views on euthanisia, assisted suicide, suicide and attempted suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I understand that psychological disorders can create the symptom of suicidal ideation and that that results in the judgement of the afflicted to be unable to make a clear decision. I think it would also make the afflicted subject to suggestion from parents, friends, other. I am wary of suggestibility. I see your point on clouded decision making.
    Thank you.

    For a person who is not afflicted with a psychological disorder - would you allow that they can make a sound decision in this matter and be allowed to commit assisted suicide?
    After a psychological review determines that they have no psychological disorder, I would support this decision in cases of terminal and seriously degenerative illnesses.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #57
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    Re: Your views on euthanisia, assisted suicide, suicide and attempted suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    After a psychological review determines that they have no psychological disorder, I would support this decision in cases of terminal and seriously degenerative illnesses.
    And so I must ask, what about an individual with a terminal or seriously degenerative illness, who is also afflicted with a psychological disorder? Which takes precedence?
    Last edited by reefedjib; 08-10-10 at 07:14 AM.

  8. #58
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    Re: Your views on euthanisia, assisted suicide, suicide and attempted suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Suicidal ideation is a symptom of several psychological disorders. One cannot make an informed personal choice when that person is in the throws of that disorder. The illness is treatable. One does not accept the decision to feed into a symptom when that person cannot make a clear decision on that issue. The illness blinds their ability to do so. No way should this EVER occur with psychological disorders. I understand your struggles. Doesn't change my view one bit.
    On further reflection, I must comment again. I still understand the point of a patient of psychological disorder having clouded thinking. Yet, it seems discriminatory to prevent their making a decision, as well.

    You see, I have always been a functioning Bipolar 1 person (aside from a week long stay for voluntary hospitalization after my own suicide attempt - it was an excellent experience as I learned CBT there and found I have used many cognitive distortions in my life). As such, I make all the decisions in my life, regarding employment, living conditions, finances - I am fully functional. However, in this area I would be denied, and given the balance of opinion being that this should only be available to terminal or degenerative diseased patients, if I ever was so afflicted, I still could not make a decision to end my life. This disturbs me. Kind of like an equal rights kind of thought.

    I just thought I would comment on this.

    PS. CC, you have commented before on your preferred system of therapy, not CBT. What was it again? Thanks!

  9. #59
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    Re: Your views on euthanisia, assisted suicide, suicide and attempted suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Suicidal ideation is a symptom of several psychological disorders. One cannot make an informed personal choice when that person is in the throws of that disorder.
    There's the rub. You say that people can only choose suicide when they're rational, and then use the fact that they want suicide as evidence they're irrational. Suicidal ideation is not a symptom of psychiatric illness, it is a response to the symptoms of psychiatric illness, just as it is a response to the symptoms of terminal illness or any other condition that makes life unbearable. You are too fixated upon the notion that they can be helped to acknowledge that help may not be what they want or need.

  10. #60
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    Re: Your views on euthanisia, assisted suicide, suicide and attempted suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    And so I must ask, what about an individual with a terminal or seriously degenerative illness, who is also afflicted with a psychological disorder? Which takes precedence?
    Depends on whether the disorder was caused by by the illness or the response to the illness, or whether it is an entity totally unto itself and/or predated the illness. In the first case, the illness takes precedence. In the second, further psychological review would need to be done. The seriousness of both would need to be assessed. It would not be clear cut; either decision could be rendered.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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