• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

When should the United States of America go to war?

When should the United States of America go to war?


  • Total voters
    72
What about resources necessary to U.S. needs but available only in foreign lands, such as oil in the Middle East?

find another source, declaring war for something like that is akin to a petulant child deprived of its toy that has a tantrum.
 
Well, OK...
December 1941...
At what specific point are you OK with going to war with Japan?

with Japan? the attack on Pearl Harbour, however, war with Germany should have been declared the moment they broke their non-agression pact with Russia, as it proved they were a direct threat to anyone.
 
find another source, declaring war for something like that is akin to a petulant child deprived of its toy that has a tantrum.

Exactly. You're essentially stealing at that point. Someone doesn't want to sell you X for the price you want, so you say it's ok to go in there; kill a bunch of people, and take X because we need it. I don't know how many people who endorse war so much would be against that action if X was from a store or company or something like that. People I think try to forget how bad war really is, they try to avoid its face as much as possible. But you have to understand what you're saying here and what you're calling for. People will die. And if you think it's ok to kill people cause they won't sell us something or we think the price is unfair; man...I don't know, I think that's pretty messed up.

It's like saying we don't have the right to sell our goods. And if we won't sell something to another country, they are justified in attacking. Now because of our military that doesn't happen; but the principle is the same. Would y'all like to have your family bombed because we didn't sell some bit of technology to another country?
 
with Japan? the attack on Pearl Harbour,
I asked 'at what point'?
Say we found the fleet an hour before launch. Then?
During launch?
When the strike crossed into our territorial waters?
Crossed over land?
Or not until the first actual shot was fired?

I'm not trying to be a pain, I just want to know what you consider an 'attack'.

however, war with Germany should have been declared the moment they broke their non-agression pact with Russia, as it proved they were a direct threat to anyone.
As if the three previous years did not illustrate that clearly enough.
 
I asked 'at what point'?
Say we found the fleet an hour before launch. Then?
During launch?
When the strike crossed into our territorial waters?
Crossed over land?
Or not until the first actual shot was fired?

I'm not trying to be a pain, I just want to know what you consider an 'attack'.

sorry, i misunderstood, i'd say as soon as they crossed into territorial waters, or when it became apparent they were attacking, whichever occurred first.


As if the three previous years did not illustrate that clearly enough.

obviously not clear enough, or the war would have started sooner.
 
sorry, i misunderstood, i'd say as soon as they crossed into territorial waters, or when it became apparent they were attacking, whichever occurred first.
So, once the attack had commenced, but before the first damage had been caused. Fair description?

obviously not clear enough, or the war would have started sooner.
The war started in September 1939.
The Germans broke the non-aggression pact w/ the Russians in June 41.
 
So, once the attack had commenced, but before the first damage had been caused. Fair description?
yeah, pretty much

The war started in September 1939.
The Germans broke the non-aggression pact w/ the Russians in June 41.

****, i really shouldn't be doing this at 2am :doh:
 
Those all sound good. The most important factor I consider in whether or not we should go to war is whether or not we can win.

And whether or not the nation in question threatens our sovereign.


I do not hold these views because I am a Fascist. I am a Fascist because I hold these views. If I am expected to do anything, it's to embrace liberal democratic values, work for a faceless corporation all my life, and die quietly and alone in a nursing facility out of sheer boredom. I am expected to do nothing and be a nobody while others rule the world and sap us of our life and strength to line their pockets.

That is the cycle of the world. If you have accepted unprovoked war as such, why not this? Fortunately, everybody has the chance to make something of themselves, that includes you, but by advocating war you advocate the removal of these rights for many many people.


Do you think that human nature has changed in the last century? There's only one great empire left in the world, and it carries itself exactly as has every other empire in human history. We may now be witnessing its final days, but there are other nations preparing to rise up and take its place. The cycle of human history continues unperturbed.

Our attitudes have changed and the way we conduct our politics to survive has changed. The world is now a small place, it is not big like it once was. We rely on science and knowledge for our survival, not petty wars and raids.
The geopolitical dynamics of our world may shift but it doesn't mean China, for example, will invade the US.

For a mere sixty years and with tremendous amounts of American support. And for how long has Japan's economy and population been stagnating? They're facing a demographic crisis because of their aging population.

That's the first world for you, im afraid.
 
yeah, pretty much
Fair enough.
But, that's for a conventional war, where damage caused in a single attack is limited.
What about an attack involving WMDs, individual weapons that can kill millions in an instant?

****, i really shouldn't be doing this at 2am :doh:
I fully understand.
 
Yes they have. You should do your research....So this is a war on Islam, is it?
No, they have not. Not like Muslims attack/kill all over the world on a DAILY basis. Islam is a vile religion of death and violence. If it was eradicated we would have no wars. I support pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan. They have proven they don't appreciate what we did for them. Let them kill each other. I don't care.
 
No, they have not.

British empire Mrs right winger. ;)

Not like Muslims attack/kill all over the world on a DAILY basis. Islam is a vile religion of death and violence.

Is it? Prove non-extremist Muslims are vile. Prove it is violent by nature.

If it was eradicated we would have no wars

Really? Was it Afghanistan or America that declared war? Was it the US or Iraq?

I support pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan. They have proven they don't appreciate what we did for them. Let them kill each other. I don't care.

This i do not agree with. Pulling out of Iraq/Afghanistan will only put us back there 10 years down the line. Instating a degree of stability will do us a lot of good, as well as them. Remember, we are not doing it for them anyway, we are doing it for us, as members of NATO and the "Western alliance" so to speak, for our security. Now i haven't interviewed every Iraqi/Afghan to say if they appreciate it or not, but if they don't i dont blame them - it's worse now than it was under Saddam.

Unfortunately we cannot afford to instate a tribalized/fascist government because it would undermine our own Democracy, even though tribal rule and dictatorship would whip those countries into there place.
 
British empire Mrs right winger. Is it? Prove non-extremist Muslims are vile. Prove it is violent by nature.Really? Was it Afghanistan or America that declared war? Was it the US or Iraq?This i do not agree with. Pulling out of Iraq/Afghanistan will only put us back there 10 years down the line. Instating a degree of stability will do us a lot of good, as well as them. Remember, we are not doing it for them anyway, we are doing it for us, as members of NATO and the "Western alliance" so to speak, for our security. Now i haven't interviewed every Iraqi/Afghan to say if they appreciate it or not, but if they don't i dont blame them - it's worse now than it was under Saddam.Unfortunately we cannot afford to instate a tribalized/fascist government because it would undermine our own Democracy, even though tribal rule and dictatorship would whip those countries into there place.

I'm talking about now. EVERY DAY we read reports about Muslims killing all over the world. The Koran COMMANDS Muslims to kill infidels. They are brainwashed with that bs from birth. Islam is violent. Muslims attacked us 911 because they are on a world-domination mission. They want EVERY country to be Islamic. They want Sharia law imposed everywhere. I am not just a "right winger". I am a big counterterrorism supporter. The stuff I see/read is sickening. I want us OUT of Iraq and Af and into Iran. I want Iminajihad's nuke facilities blown to smithereens so he can't destroy Israel and the USA like he wants. Iraq is NOT worse than under Saddam Hussein. There is democracy, voting and some decent life. Under Hussein it was rape rooms, torture chambers, and him killing 1.5 MILLION of his own people. He was the world's worst terrorist. I ADORE W for taking him out. But I am an isolationist now. We have done more than enough for the rest of the world. It's time to fix OUR problems.
 
I'm talking about now. EVERY DAY we read reports about Muslims killing all over the world. The Koran COMMANDS Muslims to kill infidels. They are brainwashed with that bs from birth. Islam is violent. Muslims attacked us 911 because they are on a world-domination mission. They want EVERY country to be Islamic. They want Sharia law imposed everywhere.

Well you know the old saying, wish in one hand **** in the other; see which one fills up first. They can want Sharia law everywhere, but I guess they're just SOL because it will never come to America. Our laws and Constitution are set already and some terrorists can't change it.

I am not just a "right winger". I am a big counterterrorism supporter. The stuff I see/read is sickening. I want us OUT of Iraq and Af and into Iran.

More war? I think it's enough. Besides, Iran is actually the place best suited for supporting a Western style democracy given its population and education level. It's theocracy because the clerics hold control; but they have the best chance if the clerics are removed. They also have already rioted and shown penchant for wanting to stand up against their government. If we go in there and kill them all; kiss that good bye.

I want Iminajihad's nuke facilities blown to smithereens so he can't destroy Israel and the USA like he wants.

They don't have a delivery mechanism to hit the US. And what about Europe; they're at fault for all this too.

Iraq is NOT worse than under Saddam Hussein. There is democracy, voting and some decent life. Under Hussein it was rape rooms, torture chambers, and him killing 1.5 MILLION of his own people.

I guess we shouldn't have put the Ba'athist party in power.

He was the world's worst terrorist.

Only if by that you mean that he was ineffective and didn't launch terrorist attacks against anyone.
 
Well you know the old saying, wish in one hand **** in the other; see which one fills up first. They can want Sharia law everywhere, but I guess they're just SOL because it will never come to America. Our laws and Constitution are set already and some terrorists can't change it.
More war? I think it's enough. Besides, Iran is actually the place best suited for supporting a Western style democracy given its population and education level. It's theocracy because the clerics hold control; but they have the best chance if the clerics are removed. They also have already rioted and shown penchant for wanting to stand up against their government. If we go in there and kill them all; kiss that good bye.
They don't have a delivery mechanism to hit the US. And what about Europe; they're at fault for all this too.
I guess we shouldn't have put the Ba'athist party in power.
Only if by that you mean that he was ineffective and didn't launch terrorist attacks against anyone.

They DO want Sharia law everywhere. Look where they dominate--especially in MI. They would set up Sharia here today if they could.
Not more war: different war. No more Iraq and Af. On to Iran. Not to kill anyone. Just to take out the lunatic's nuke facilities.
I meant it as he tortured/killed 1.5 million innocent people.
 
I'm talking about now. EVERY DAY we read reports about Muslims killing all over the world.

Muslims or brown people? Ok, lets play this game.
How many white people commit crime everyday? How does that reflect on Christianity?


The Koran COMMANDS Muslims to kill infidels. They are brainwashed with that bs from birth. Islam is violent.

Is that in the Qua-ran? First i heard of it. Misinformation. Your own ignorance has created your hatred. It's funny actually because it preaches the complete opposite; tolerance.

Muslims attacked us 911 because they are on a world-domination mission. They want EVERY country to be Islamic. They want Sharia law imposed everywhere. I am not just a "right winger". I am a big counterterrorism supporter.

Your misinformed, that's what you are. 9/11 was commited by terrorists. What gave you the impression Muslims advocated that? Last i checked moderate Muslim clerics denounced it on behalf of there followers.


The stuff I see/read is sickening. I want us OUT of Iraq and Af and into Iran. I want Iminajihad's nuke facilities blown to smithereens so he can't destroy Israel and the USA like he wants. Iraq is NOT worse than under Saddam Hussein. There is democracy, voting and some decent life.

It is. They may be able to vote, but they will never be free from the terrorism they are subject to on a daily basis. Saddam had an iron grip. Now, we have a country without a government because of political disputes that is preventing it from forming a coalition. I dont support Saddam, im a supporter of Western Democratic values; any other system is just.....wrong. But not all places are compatible with it, Iraq being one of them.

Under Hussein it was rape rooms, torture chambers, and him killing 1.5 MILLION of his own people. He was the world's worst terrorist. I ADORE W for taking him out. But I am an isolationist now. We have done more than enough for the rest of the world. It's time to fix OUR problems.

Sure, now the terrorists are doing that for him. At least then there was some form of stability. Terrorist attacks where low, and so was crime. But because America jumping the gun with very little credible intel, we now have a country which might ACTUALLY obtain nuclear weapons but we cant do zilch about it; we simply have no money or morale. And so Iran is left laughing.

Let Israel sort it out. Seriously, you call yourself an isolationist?
 
Last edited:
Muslims or brown people? Ok, lets play this game.
How many white people commit crime everyday? How does that reflect on Christianity?
Is that in the Qua-ran? First i heard of it. Misinformation. Your own ignorance has created your hatred. It's funny actually because it preaches the complete opposite; tolerance.
Your misinformed, that's what you are. 9/11 was commited by terrorists. What gave you the impression Muslims advocated that? Last i checked moderate Muslim clerics denounced it on behalf of there followers.
It is. They may be able to vote, but they will never be free from the terrorism they are subject to on a daily basis. Saddam had an iron grip. Now, we have a country without a government because of political disputes that is preventing it from forming a coalition. I dont support Saddam, im a supporter of Western Democratic values; any other system is just.....wrong. But not all places are compatible with it, Iraq being one of them.
Sure, now the terrorists are doing that for him. At least then there was some form of stability. Terrorist attacks where low, and so was crime. But because America jumping the gun with very little credible intel, we now have a country which might ACTUALLY obtain nuclear weapons but we cant do zilch about it; we simply have no money or morale. And so Iran is left laughing.
Let Israel sort it out. Seriously, you call yourself an isolationist?
This is not about race. Islam is not a race. It is a vile religion of death and destruction. And body parts.
TheReligionofPeace - Total Terror in the Name of Allah
Muslim terrorists commited 911 and more than 15,500 deadly terror attacks SINCE then.
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time
Stability? You call rape rooms, torture and death "stability"? Saddam Hussein was a monster. I'm glad he's in Hell.
Israel is sorting it out. She is crucified every time she tries to defend herself from these filthy pukes. She will win. It's prophesied. Israel is God's and Jews are God's chosen people. They will ALWAYS have victory!
 
Last edited:
You are a very wise chickie!!

That's the least we can do for Israel!! After all they have fought shoulder to shoulder with the US in every military conflict since their inception in '48. Google "Israeli Heros Of the Korean, Viet Nam, Iraq, and Afghanistan Wars.... They are our greatest ally. GWs wars were a blessing to us all. Let's hope that Obama does as he is told and keeps them going forever. Both Israel and the US are dependent on war since they are two of the worlds leading manufacturers of war implements. We should never allow any competition in this area. Remember, every time a cruise missle is fired into a nation of muslim extremists, or some ordinance fired into a toyota truck full of Palistinians MONEY is being made by someone here at home and also in our beloved friends land of Israel. That is good bussiness.

excellent.
 
This is not about race. Islam is not a race. It is a vile religion of death and destruction. And body parts.
TheReligionofPeace - Total Terror in the Name of Allah
Muslim terrorists commited 911 and more than 15,500 deadly terror attacks SINCE then.
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

I asked for evidence from the Qua-ran, not propagandist sites.

Stability? You call rape rooms, torture and death "stability"? Saddam Hussein was a monster. I'm glad he's in Hell.

So am i. But it was still a stable society nonetheless. A volatile society would be one run by a weak central power, where the rule of law is rarely if ever, kept. That was not the case with Iraq. Your an "isolationist" apparently. First one i ever met that cared what was happening outside of her/his own borders.

Israel is sorting it out. She is crucified every time she tries to defend herself from these filthy pukes. She will win. It's prophesied. Israel is God's and Jews are God's chosen people. They will ALWAYS have victory!

So not only do you have a hatred for Islam but you yourself are a Christian radicalist. Or Jewish?
How are you any better than "those muslims". You hate as they do. You ask for there destruction as they do others.
How are you any less vile or disgusting then them? That's the point, your not any less disgusting or vile than they are.
 
Last edited:
They DO want Sharia law everywhere. Look where they dominate--especially in MI. They would set up Sharia here today if they could.

And again, it doesn't matter. They can't force it here.

Not more war: different war.

Wouldn't different war still be war? So wouldn't "more war" be accurate?

No more Iraq and Af. On to Iran. Not to kill anyone. Just to take out the lunatic's nuke facilities.

How are you doing that without killing anyone? Or causing a huge international crisis which will result in retaliation? Which would result in the outbreak of formal hostilities, which would result in massive death?
 
This is not about race. Islam is not a race. It is a vile religion of death and destruction. And body parts.
TheReligionofPeace - Total Terror in the Name of Allah
Muslim terrorists committed 911 and more than 15,500 deadly terror attacks SINCE then.
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time
Stability? You call rape rooms, torture and death "stability"? Saddam Hussein was a monster. I'm glad he's in Hell.
Israel is sorting it out. She is crucified every time she tries to defend herself from these filthy pukes. She will win. It's prophesied. Israel is God's and Jews are God's chosen people. They will ALWAYS have victory!
Much like Christianity, Islam is not one monolithic whole, but a collection of sects that often disagree on what, precisely, the Koran tells them to do/not do.
 
Last edited:
Exactly. You're essentially stealing at that point. Someone doesn't want to sell you X for the price you want, so you say it's ok to go in there; kill a bunch of people, and take X because we need it.

Or just because we want it. We sent gunships to Japan to get them to reconsider their isolationist policies. Personally, I consider looting to be a perfectly valid reason for a war, but it isn't fair that our soldiers aren't allowed to profit from this kind of blatant economic bullying.
 
Or just because we want it. We sent gunships to Japan to get them to reconsider their isolationist policies.

Yeah, that brilliant strategy ended up creating a powerful enemy we had to fight for control of the Pacific.

Personally, I consider looting to be a perfectly valid reason for a war, but it isn't fair that our soldiers aren't allowed to profit from this kind of blatant economic bullying.

Looting is no longer a viable strategy. Trade is infinitely more profitable and doesn't have any where near the negative consequences. We have gained more in trade with Vietnam than could have ever been obtained by looting.

Invading other countries in order to steal their resources should be used only in desperation. If you are in the middle of WW3 and need to invade venezuela for oil, so be it. Otherwise it is very unlikely the benefits would outweigh the costs.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, that brilliant strategy ended up creating a powerful enemy we had to fight for control of the Pacific.
You know that he's talking about Perry's visit in 1853, right? And that the Japanese were our allies in WWI, right?
FDR did far more to make Japan our enemy than anyone before or since.

Looting is no longer a viable strategy. Trade is infinitely more profitable and doesn't have any where near the negative consequences.
Presuming that trade is an option, yes. That's why the GWB critics that said we were going into Iraq to get the oil were so obviously wrong -- if that's what we wanted, we'd just buy it.
However, if there is a commodity that we must have and no one is selling, going in to get it is a perfectly viable option.

We have gained more in trade with Vietnam than could have ever been obtained by looting.
Ooh -- nice. It would be even better had we been in Vietnam for economic purposes so that your comnparison had at least an iota of credibilit.

Invading other countries in order to steal their resources should be used only in desperation.
Good to see that you accept the premise.
 
My predictions were wrong (although probably self-defeating).

The poll extremes "Always (I'll be surprised if anyone chooses this)" and "Never (Probably more people will choose this than the other extreme)" seem to have produced the opposite of my predictions.

I wonder how many people voted "Always" just to be contrary? :lol:
 
I asked for evidence from the Qua-ran, not propagandist sites.So not only do you have a hatred for Islam but you yourself are a Christian radicalist. Or Jewish?How are you any better than "those muslims". You hate as they do. You ask for there destruction as they do others.How are you any less vile or disgusting then them? That's the point, your not any less disgusting or vile than they are.
Not propaganda. There were dozens of verses from the Koran on there proving how Muslims are taught from birth to hate/kill infidels. Not a radical or a Jew, but I do love Jews. They are God's chosen. I don't kill people for not believing as I do. I don't threaten them, commit violent crimes if I am offended, or act like a wild animal. I don't hate women and treat them like garbage. I love Jesus Christ/God, not a moon god. Aren't personal attacks bannable offenses?

..How are you doing that without killing anyone? Or causing a huge international crisis which will result in retaliation? Which would result in the outbreak of formal hostilities, which would result in massive death?
Sneak attack. Catch them off-guard. We have the technology. I think Barack Hussein Obama is too chicken and too much of a Muslim-lover to do it.

Much like Christianity, Islam is not one monolithic whole, but a collection of sects that often disagree on what, precisely, the Koran tells them to do/not do.
The Koran tells Muslims to kill non-believers. The Bible tells Christians to try to convert non-believers in love. Not by sawing their faces off.
 
Back
Top Bottom