View Poll Results: Gay marriage should be legal in America

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    49 35.00%
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Thread: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

  1. #61
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Gay marriage is not a Constitutional right, nor should gay marriage ever be legalized. The homosexual union is not marriage nor can it properly fit the definition of the legal heterosexual one. If anything, civil unions identical to marriage would be acceptable.
    Do you REALLY want to start this again?
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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  2. #62
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Do you REALLY want to start this again?
    No, just voicing my opinion It is a poll isn't it?
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    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    No, just voicing my opinion It is a poll isn't it?
    Your comment, "The homosexual union is not marriage nor can it properly fit the definition of the legal heterosexual one," sounded like a challenge, to me. Perhaps I was mistaken.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #64
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Btw... for those of you still focusing on the polygamy red herring, here's an old post of mine that I have used to demonstrate how the polygamy argument is irrelevant:


    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    First. let us take a look at the difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals. The striking difference is obvious. Homosexuals have a sexual orientation towards those of the same sex, whereas heterosexuals have a sexual orientation towards those of the opposite sex. Why would a heterosexual woman want to marry a man? Sexual orientation. Why would a homosexual man want to marry a man? Sexual orientation. Clearly, from an individual standpoint, this is a, if not the main reason for one wanting to marry a specific other. Love, attraction, emotion. Now, this does not justify gay marriage being validated, and, in fact is a weak argument that I never make. Love, attraction, and emotion does not benefit the state, which is why marriage exists. However, polygamy does not fit well in the criteria that I have identified. There is no polygamous sexual orientation. Polygamy is, typically, a heterosexual orientation, covered already. However, being that there is no polygamous sexual orientation, using this, a mainstay of the individual reason for marriage, will not work or apply. Therefore, polygamy from an individual standpoint, does not meet the same criteria for marriage as do homosexuals or heterosexuals. Lack of orientation.

    Now, we move into the societal realm. Government supports marriage for a few reasons. The productive rearing of children is most important. Creating a stable family life is also key: it adds to the positive potential for healthy children, but it also creates healthy adults. There is plenty of evidence to support the theory that those who live in a healthy, stable, committed relationship, are happier, healthier, and are more productive members of society. These are all things that benefit the state. Research shows that, regardless of sexual orientation, gay or straight, folks who live in these kinds of committed relationships, do better, and rear children better, than those who do not. This is regardless of sexual orientation. This is the second piece of the argument that will, eventually win the day for gay marriage. Polygamy does not offer the same benefits. And the answer to "why" is simple, and is psychological in nature. Jealousy, rivalry, and inconsistency. Just like my argument that psychology cannot be separated from economics, hence, because of greed, pure forms of both socialism and libertarianism are destined to be complete failures, neither can human psychology be separated from this issue. What is the number one cause of divorce? Adultery. Why? Jealousy and rivalry. In a multi-partner marriage, it would be impossible for their not to be some sort of hierarchy, and even if this is agreed upon, one cannot eliminate one's emotions. With this type of emotional instability at the familial structure's core, a healthy, committed relationship, similar to that of a single partner marriage, could not be obtained. Further, the inconsistency in caretaking responsibilities and in child rearing responsibilities, compounded by the hierarchies and rivalries will harm the children, affecting their functioning. We already see some of this in divorced families, where inconsistent rules, non-existent co-parenting, and rivalries, negatively affect children.

    Lastly, though there is plenty of research that supports both heterosexual and homosexual unions as being beneficial, there is none that supports polygamy.

    All of this shows how there is not correlation nor slippery slope from homosexual to polygamous marriage. Polygamy, for the reasons I identified, is not only a very different animal than homosexual marriage, but has none of the similar benefits to the state that the government currently sees marriage as.

    Polygamy as a reaction to homosexual marriage is a smokescreen and an invalid comparison.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    The federal constitution defines what the federal government cannot do. It has nothing to do with granted rights, but rights that may not be infringed upon.

    Marriage does not qualify. Marriage licensing is a privilege granted at the state level. Marriage should never be part of the constitution because the way it's defined, and its limitations, have been subject to change for centuries.

  6. #66
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Btw... for those of you still focusing on the polygamy red herring, here's an old post of mine that I have used to demonstrate how the polygamy argument is irrelevant:
    I posted Zyphlin's excellent legal explanation of why from a legal point of view polygamy is irrelevant in this thread as well. Together, they pretty much destroy any hope of the polygamy argument.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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  7. #67
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I posted Zyphlin's excellent legal explanation of why from a legal point of view polygamy is irrelevant in this thread as well. Together, they pretty much destroy any hope of the polygamy argument.
    I saw. That's why I pulled my post from the cobwebs. Combined, they demonstrate why, from legal, social, and psychological standpoint, the polygamy argument is nothing but a red herring. They should be combined and posted whenever someone delves into that form of stupidity.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #68
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The federal constitution defines what the federal government cannot do. It has nothing to do with granted rights, but rights that may not be infringed upon.

    Marriage does not qualify. Marriage licensing is a privilege granted at the state level. Marriage should never be part of the constitution because the way it's defined, and its limitations, have been subject to change for centuries.
    That would be easy to work around. Government cannot infringe on a marriage between two individuals of the same gender.

    However, the constitution does detail things that the government must do, like provide for defense.

  9. #69
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    The irony...
    What's ironic ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho
    Why? If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... why make up a new word to describe it?
    Marriage is between a man and a woman... the union of two homosexuals is not marriage. Seems simple to understand.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Your comment, "The homosexual union is not marriage nor can it properly fit the definition of the legal heterosexual one," sounded like a challenge, to me. Perhaps I was mistaken.
    What's wrong with it? It's simple:

    Marriage = man + woman + legal recognition

    <fill in the space> = man + man / woman + woman + legal recognition
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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