View Poll Results: Gay marriage should be legal in America

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  • Yes

    49 35.00%
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    91 65.00%
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Thread: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

  1. #31
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Marriage isn't a Constitutional right and should never become one.

    Same-sex marriage, however, should absolutely be legal.
    I fully agree with the first part, but disagree with the second portion.
    Too many consider marriage to be a joke, not a serious thing......maybe I am wrong...so be it.

  2. #32
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    I don't think it should be a constitutional rights.

    My opinion is that the constitution should address broad principals more than specific things.

  3. #33
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    No, since we have a graduated system of rights. 17 year olds do not have the right to vote. Yet at the age of 18 it must apply equally.
    Good point.... thanx.

    So I'll change my example.

    If marriage to any person you want to marry is a Constitutional right, then there should be no problem with having 2, or 3, or 25 wives of husbands.

    My whole point is that marriage is not a right, it's a civil contract, and it has traditionally been between a man and a woman.

    The reason for this poll is because the court just struck down a voter approved State Constitutional Amendment in California on US Constitutional grounds. I have yet to see anything in the Constitution that gives the Fed any right or power over the institution of marriage.

    BTW…. If you read the decision of the court it is obvious that the judge did not use any constitutional arguments, but was legislating from the bench in favor of his own sexual preferences.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Good point.... thanx.

    So I'll change my example.

    If marriage to any person you want to marry is a Constitutional right, then there should be no problem with having 2, or 3, or 25 wives of husbands.

    My whole point is that marriage is not a right, it's a civil contract, and it has traditionally been between a man and a woman.

    The reason for this poll is because the court just struck down a voter approved State Constitutional Amendment in California on US Constitutional grounds. I have yet to see anything in the Constitution that gives the Fed any right or power over the institution of marriage.

    BTW…. If you read the decision of the court it is obvious that the judge did not use any constitutional arguments, but was legislating from the bench in favor of his own sexual preferences.
    Actually, if you read the ruling, you will see it is clearly based on US constitutional law.

    The Polygamy, Incest, Bestiality, pedophilia red herrings have been shown to be false so many times it is hilarious people keep brining them up. Let me refer you to a nice post on this topic from a conservative made today:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    To help make this a bit more specific for people complaining about the polygamist stuff, so you know...maybe you can actually make an argument for it that addresses peoples points.

    In regards to equal protection there's two arguments being made.

    One held by myself, riv, and perhaps others, that this is a gender thing. Gender is already a defined status under the EPC that is of mid level protection requiring important state interest and substantial proof.

    One held by others is that sexual orientation should be covered under EPC. They tend to feel one of two ways:

    • 1. They feel that they should be there under the minimum scrutiny level "Rational Basis" and that even under that there is not enough proof to show that the the discrimination is rationally able to be shown to serve a legitimate state interest.

      2. They feel that they should be there under the Quasi-Suspect middle tier at the very least, requiring an equal amount of proof and need as gender does. And possibly even arguing equal to the top tier "Strict Scrutiny". They feel this way because there's a large amount of legitimate evidence that suggests homosexual orientation is, in many if not most cases, a natural occuring thing that one is born with akin to race or sex.


    Finally, the argument from both in regards to equal protection and why it does not account for polygamists is as generall as follows. "How many people" is not a protected status of some sort under the EPC, and saying "Its not equal that he can marry one person but I can't marry two" is not evidence of inequality based on a protected status of any kind.

    Additionally, there is a far stronger argument for state interest in preventing polygamists marriages then there is in gay marriages. And it can be made without the typical hyperbolic stereotypes of pedophilia or incest. The implimentation of polygamist marriages opens the door for a significant hinderance on the U.S. and States court systems due to the numerous issues surrounding polygamy. Take for example the ability for the spouse to have the final say over health decisions...when there is multiple spouses if they disagree then this becomes a legal issue that will bog down the courts. The only alternative to this would be to be able to designate certain spouses as somehow special and having more of the benefits than others, but that in and of itself creates a government imposed unequal designation. Additionally it opens up a far more glaring and damaging issue for the government in regards to the tax abilities regarding marriage by allowign people to create extremely long chains of individuals all connected with regards to the tax benefits where as the current "two people" limit provides a reasonable limit on the connections that keeps its impact from reaching the point where it would reach government interest.

    So to truly use the polygamist argument against people making the EPC claims to suggest they're hypocritical one must:

    1. Provide a legitimate argument as to how and why Polygamy should be or is a protected EPC class of equal or greater level to the class they're suggesting is the reason for same sex marriage is.

    2. Provide a legitimate argument as to why the arguments for government interest against polygamy are incorrect.

    3. Provide a legitimate argument as to why there is as pertinent of arguments for government interest against same sex marriage as there is for polygamy.

    Enjoy.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Blah blah blah, yeah, we've all heard it before.

    Get used to it, it's going to happen, it already has in many places and somehow it's been perfectly legal and accepted.

    Come join us in the 21st century.
    Do you know how difficult this is for a man born in the previous century, raised in the 17th century, educated in the 18th century, and has a comfort zone in the 21st centruy.....
    And, simply as something is 21st century does not make it better or more right..

  6. #36
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    If you are going to call marriage a Constitutional right, then it has to apply equally to every citizen..... including a new born baby.

    Any one want to re-think their yes vote?
    Voting and carrying a gun are both Constitutional rights. Doesn't seem to be a problem with only applying those rights to adults.

  7. #37
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    I fully agree with the first part, but disagree with the second portion.
    Too many consider marriage to be a joke, not a serious thing......maybe I am wrong...so be it.
    I agree. But the people who are fighting for their right to marry are not the ones treating marriage as a joke.

  8. #38
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post

    BTW…. If you read the decision of the court it is obvious that the judge did not use any constitutional arguments, but was legislating from the bench in favor of his own sexual preferences.
    This statement makes me doubt that you read the judge's decision.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    You just can't stand it that Barry isn't NBC..... but I degress.

    If Marrige is a Constitutional right it must apply equally to all citizens, correct? Please answer that question.... it's a simple question that has one of two answers, yes or no.
    You mean like the right to vote? You do realize that you're suggesting infants are allowed to vote, right?

  10. #40
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    Re: Gay marriage should be a constitutional right in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    My whole point is that marriage is not a right, it's a civil contract, and it has traditionally been between a man and a woman.
    The US Supreme Court disagrees with you since they have declared it a right.

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