View Poll Results: Should the 14th Amendment be changed or repealed

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  • No, the 14th amendment should not be touched

    34 55.74%
  • Yes, it should be changed to only give citizenship if the mother is legally in the U.S.

    4 6.56%
  • Yes, it should be changed to only give citizenship if one parent is a U.S. citizen

    15 24.59%
  • Yes, it should be completely repealed

    3 4.92%
  • Other, please explain in the thread

    5 8.20%
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Thread: Should the 14th amendment be amended or repealed?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should the 14th amendment be amended or repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I'm against it unless someone can demonstrate what a child born here to parents that are legal residents has done his/herself to earn his/her citizenship that a child born her to parents that are illegal residents has not done.

    As far as I can tell, the only arguments in favor of these types of amendments are irrational gibberish.
    You have it backwards...... legal residents haven't broken any laws to be here, therefore they are under the jurisdiction of the US government if a child is born on US soil. Illegal alien invaders have done something illegal to be here, and in no way can be considered under the jurisdiction of the US government if a child is born on US soil.

    Think of it this way.. Illegal aliens are hiding from the fed. If we don’t even know they are here, how can we have jurisdiction over them?

    PS. I’m not sure I like the idea of children of legal resident aliens getting automatic citizenship. I think at least one parent should be a citizen before a child gets citizenship….. Jus sanguinis
    is a law of nature, jus soli is just geography.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

  2. #42
    Educator hallam's Avatar
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    Re: Should the 14th amendment be amended or repealed?

    The 14th should not change at all. Babies born in the US from illegal immigrants should be automatically considered US citizens. This entire country is built on premises like the sins of the father don't translate to the son. The baby has done nothing; has committed no crime. It couldn't pick where it was to be born. It couldn't pick nor is the baby at fault for the crimes of it's parents. The parents have broken the law and they can be sent home but there is no reason to punish the child. Even if those parents take the child home with them, that child should still be considered a US citizen. Or at least have dual citizenship until age 18 and then the option to pick one citizenship at that age.

    To systematically reject these babies as non-citizens spits in the face of what it means to be an American. It says that we have rejected the ideals of the country that accepts all legal comers (again, the baby has broken no laws).
    Last edited by hallam; 08-06-10 at 06:40 PM.

  3. #43
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    Re: Should the 14th amendment be amended or repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Why not an enemy soldier? Isn't he/she as much under the jurisdiction of the US as an illegal alien? If not, why not?
    nope. that enemy soldier is opposing the US jurisdiction - actively attempting to end it - following the mandate of another soverign nation (or terrorist regime)
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  4. #44
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    Re: Should the 14th amendment be amended or repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    Why not?.... just put your name on the birth certificates and be prepared to support the kids and you are good to go.

    I can just see you paying out $364,926,748 a month, or going to jail for lack of child support.
    glad you agree. as you should then be able to recognize, we will have then done nothing to end the anchor baby problem that the fuzzy amendment to the 14th amendment is intended to cure

    and baby jesus' mama would probably agree to hold me harmless for child support as the consideration for making USA citizenship possible for her anchor baby
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  5. #45
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    Re: Should the 14th amendment be amended or repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    ok, so if i claim to be the father of every baby born to an illegal alien mother, then that assertion makes each of those babies an American citizen under your protocol
    Yes, as they should be, because you are an American citizen and those are your children. When you claim to be the father of those children, you are making yourself responsible for their welfare and their upbringing-- making them Americans, just like you. If you're going to be the father of her children, you should also probably consider marrying her, which will not make her a US citizen but will make it easier for her to become one. This is also right, as marrying an American shows a commitment to living as an American.

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    The 14th should not change at all. Babies born in the US from illegal immigrants should be automatically considered US citizens. This entire country is built on premises like the sins of the father don't translate to the son. The baby has done nothing; has committed no crime. It couldn't pick where it was to be born. It couldn't pick nor is the baby at fault for the crimes of it's parents. The parents have broken the law and they can be sent home but there is no reason to punish the child.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Come on Korimyr, their parents left their country for a reason.
    They may have, but that doesn't make them Americans. Being the same nationality as their parents is not a punishment. There is a process by which people who wish to become Americans, and who wish for their children to be Americans, can change their nationality and be accepted into our community. We can not and should not be responsible for people who do not follow this process and abide by our laws. We have the right to decide, as a nation, who belongs within our nation and who does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I'm against it unless someone can demonstrate what a child born here to parents that are legal residents has done his/herself to earn his/her citizenship that a child born her to parents that are illegal residents has not done.
    Citizenship in most nations, ours included, is not earned. It is a privilege automatically extended to the families that belong to the nation. We allow foreigners to earn that privilege because we are a nation of immigrants and we believe that immigration makes our nation stronger. We're under no obligation to do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Its funny how the right-wingers try to argue that Obama is trying to destroy our Constitution....when in reality, it is the right-wing that has sought to destroy our Constitution for decades. At least now...with this issue and gay rights issues they are not even trying to be discreet about it.
    Amending our Constitution does not destroy it. It has been amended multiple times in our nation's history, including the addition of our most cherished rights. Our Constitution, and our nation, is stronger for our ability to address the changing needs of our society.

  6. #46
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    Re: Should the 14th amendment be amended or repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Yes, as they should be, because you are an American citizen and those are your children. When you claim to be the father of those children, you are making yourself responsible for their welfare and their upbringing-- making them Americans, just like you. If you're going to be the father of her children, you should also probably consider marrying her, which will not make her a US citizen but will make it easier for her to become one. This is also right, as marrying an American shows a commitment to living as an American.
    you misunderstand
    i could claim to be the father of EVERY child born of an illegal alien, thereby causing every child to acquire American citizenship
    to marry all the mothers would be bigamy on my part and by every married mother of a newborn, who would recognize me (for citizenship purposes only) to be the father of their child
    your revision of the 14th amendment will have allowed a wholesale eligibility of new citizens who otherwise would not be found to be Americans. and those kids would not even have to be born in the USA; they could be born anywhere so long as an American "parent", most easily the one not giving birth, will affirm that the new born is his
    and a mother seeking to have their child attain an American citizenship thru this manipulation of your revised amendment, would ordinarily agree to release the American "father" of any responsibilities regarding the support and welfare of the child, as a condition of the American "father" asserting the child as his own. and if that mother is already married, she certainly would not look forward to the encumbrance of a new gringo husband
    just poking holes in your proposed amendment to expose its flaws

    They may have, but that doesn't make them Americans. Being the same nationality as their parents is not a punishment. There is a process by which people who wish to become Americans, and who wish for their children to be Americans, can change their nationality and be accepted into our community. We can not and should not be responsible for people who do not follow this process and abide by our laws. We have the right to decide, as a nation, who belongs within our nation and who does not.



    Citizenship in most nations, ours included, is not earned. It is a privilege automatically extended to the families that belong to the nation. We allow foreigners to earn that privilege because we are a nation of immigrants and we believe that immigration makes our nation stronger. We're under no obligation to do this.



    Amending our Constitution does not destroy it. It has been amended multiple times in our nation's history, including the addition of our most cherished rights. Our Constitution, and our nation, is stronger for our ability to address the changing needs of our society.
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  7. #47
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    Re: Should the 14th amendment be amended or repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    If your senate is about to modify the federal constitution, I hope EVERYONE is paying VERY close attention to what they're doing every step of the way.

    I personally would be worried given how apathetic most people are today toward their own country's politics, and how statist the fed is becoming.
    Hmmm... in the U.S., the Senate doesn't have the power to modify the Constitution...
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  8. #48
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    Re: Should the 14th amendment be amended or repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you misunderstand
    i could claim to be the father of EVERY child born of an illegal alien, thereby causing every child to acquire American citizenship
    Good luck paying your child support.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    and a mother seeking to have their child attain an American citizenship thru this manipulation of your revised amendment, would ordinarily agree to release the American "father" of any responsibilities regarding the support and welfare of the child, as a condition of the American "father" asserting the child as his own. and if that mother is already married, she certainly would not look forward to the encumbrance of a new gringo husband
    American law does not recognize prior agreements concerning child support and many American States automatically assign paternity to the husband of the child's mother.

  9. #49
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    Re: Should the 14th amendment be amended or repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Good luck paying your child support.
    yea, as if all child support is paid
    in many communities, not only does the father not pay child support, on 'father's day' he comes by to pick up his share of the welfare check the presence of his progeny generated
    and you fail to recognize that the foreign mothers - who want their child to be an American citizen - would gladly give up an expectation of child support for an American "father" to recognize their child as his own
    American law does not recognize prior agreements concerning child support ...
    really, please offer the cites which would show us this to be fact
    ... and many American States automatically assign paternity to the husband of the child's mother.
    but the mother would be giving birth prepared to identify the "American" father as the one shown on the birth certificate
    over time the hospital wards would get savvy to it and have the certificates preprinted with the same "father's" pre-printed name
    and recognize that the birth no longer has to occur in US territory; under your proposal, that the American "father" is identified as such on the foreign birth certificate will be all that is needed to establish the American citizenship of the child ... despite its being born elsewhere. [sarcasm] no way that result would be manipulated to establish anchor babies [/sarcasm]
    again, just poking holes in your proposed "amendment" to the 14th amendment
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  10. #50
    Educator hallam's Avatar
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    Re: Should the 14th amendment be amended or repealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    They may have, but that doesn't make them Americans. Being the same nationality as their parents is not a punishment. There is a process by which people who wish to become Americans, and who wish for their children to be Americans, can change their nationality and be accepted into our community. We can not and should not be responsible for people who do not follow this process and abide by our laws. We have the right to decide, as a nation, who belongs within our nation and who does not.
    Being born on American soil has always made someone American. See A, they are born on American soil and as they are a new person, they are under the direct jurisdiction of the US especially DHHS. So yes it does make them American; you are stripping them of their rights based on a prejudice. If you read this carefully, you will see that most Americans are Americans simply because they were born here, not because both or one of their parents are Americans. The parental exception doesn't come in until a person is born outside of US soil.

    United States Code: Title 8,1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth | LII / Legal Information Institute
    Last edited by hallam; 08-08-10 at 10:31 AM.

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