View Poll Results: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

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  • Very Convincing

    1 5.26%
  • Somewhat Convincing

    1 5.26%
  • Neither

    2 10.53%
  • Somewhat Unconvincing

    1 5.26%
  • Very Unconvincing

    14 73.68%
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Thread: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

  1. #71
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    As I previously stated. I am not against punishing bad guys. That would be a function of any civilized society. Its how we do it that is important.

    The USMJ says we can imprison people forever without any reason? Thats pretty scary.
    No...the UCMJ says that US soldiers are still beholden to laws where the US consitution doesnt apply...

    And Obama and the Obama admin DOJ says we can hold people...indefinitely...without trial. We keep talking about the 250 in GITMO but the 600 in Bagram are not even a blip on the radar screen. because they are not US citizens...not under US jurisdiction, not covered by the constitution and not enemy combatants.

  2. #72
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    No...the UCMJ says that US soldiers are still beholden to laws where the US consitution doesnt apply...

    And Obama and the Obama admin DOJ says we can hold people...indefinitely...without trial. We keep talking about the 250 in GITMO but the 600 in Bagram are not even a blip on the radar screen. because they are not US citizens...not under US jurisdiction, not covered by the constitution and not enemy combatants.
    I don't care about the citizenship aspect of it. To me that has nothing to do with that phrase from the founders. This is truly freightening.

  3. #73
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't care about the citizenship aspect of it. To me that has nothing to do with that phrase from the founders. This is truly freightening.
    Really? how is that 'truly frightening'? How do you hope to extend constitutional rights and trials to someone who cannot be mirandized, with no mechanism for evidence collection, for any of the constitutional conditions on which you would base a trial? Or do you have some other vision of what that would actually look like? Again...Obama doesnt...thats why Bagram is expanding.

  4. #74
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Really? how is that 'truly frightening'? How do you hope to extend constitutional rights and trials to someone who cannot be mirandized, with no mechanism for evidence collection, for any of the constitutional conditions on which you would base a trial? Or do you have some other vision of what that would actually look like? Again...Obama doesnt...thats why Bagram is expanding.
    This is the exact mentality used by despots and genocidal tyrants through the ages:

    "They don't deserve the rights and privileges we demand for ourselves, as They are not like us. We are the only ones that deserve humane treatment, as They are somehow "less than human."

    Disgusting.

  5. #75
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    And Obama and the Obama admin DOJ says we can hold people...indefinitely...without trial. We keep talking about the 250 in GITMO but the 600 in Bagram are not even a blip on the radar screen. because they are not US citizens...not under US jurisdiction, not covered by the constitution and not enemy combatants.
    AND THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM. In my opinion, the legal decisions that we didn't have to follow international treaties in regards to POWs with these "enemy combatants," were intrinsically flawed and should be reprehensible given that they fail to recognize these individuals as human beings.

  6. #76
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Really? how is that 'truly frightening'? How do you hope to extend constitutional rights and trials to someone who cannot be mirandized, with no mechanism for evidence collection, for any of the constitutional conditions on which you would base a trial? Or do you have some other vision of what that would actually look like? Again...Obama doesnt...thats why Bagram is expanding.
    Uncola got to my answer before I did.

  7. #77
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    ef that we can just pass the debt onto future generations. However Obama' first year was greater than the two largest of Bush's. His projected out second year with that first year is more than Bush's entire Presidency.
    It still seems to me that conservatives are being unrealistic with what they want for the national debt and spending and taxes.

    Before Obama was even inaugurated the CBO figured the deficit for 2009 would be 1.2 trillion.
    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9...ok.pdf#page=19

    From what I gather, from the more unrealistic conservatives I've met (not trying to lump all together or say that Zyphlin is an unrealistic conservative, just wanted to comment on this one thing) I've gathered that what they wanted from Obama was for him to come into a crappy economy, a huge deficit with a large debt piled behind it and somehow reduce taxes and reduce the estimated government spending by about 800,000,000,000 (actually more than that to counter whatever tax cuts he would also enact) to reduce the deficit to about what bush ran his last year. One could only imagine how the economy would be right now with no stimulus dollars at work and government spending slashed from every direction.

    It's not a good situation to be in but I think he's handling it as good as someone could have. The fed needed to and probably still needs to invest in jobs and when the economy is on a solid uptick they should be more strict on government spending than ever before.

  8. #78
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I don't think you're open to being rational on the subject.




    I accept your concession.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
    Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I accept your concession.
    Indeed. I concede that you cannot present your views in a logical, coherent fashion. Thus, debating with you is an exercise in pointlessness.

  10. #80
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Indeed. I concede that you cannot present your views in a logical, coherent fashion. Thus, debating with you is an exercise in pointlessness.



    I asked you to explain your partisanship, if you want to be snotty to me that's your choice. But lets review. I asked you an on topic question, you resorted to ad homs....


    How do you think this will play out?
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
    Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

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