View Poll Results: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

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  • Very Convincing

    1 5.26%
  • Somewhat Convincing

    1 5.26%
  • Neither

    2 10.53%
  • Somewhat Unconvincing

    1 5.26%
  • Very Unconvincing

    14 73.68%
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Thread: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

  1. #51
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I don't trust my government, or for that matter, ANY government, to hold people indefinitely without access to an attorney or without having their day in court. If they are, as you profess, clearly terrorists, then there should be no difficulty in presenting the evidence against them, even if it is only before a military tribunal. We've been holding some of these people for years. Some people have even DIED in captivity, perhaps through torture.

    That's not the kind of power I want to see any government have, and I'm certainly not about to trust that they are who the government says they are, just because they say so. That's a dangerous precedent, and just because it's not us being held there doesn't mean we should allow our fears to overrule our fundamental principles as a nation.
    If I for a second believed we could send those terrorists to say Pakistan for trial and that they would be jailed forever and ever Id be fine with shutting down GITMO. But these folks are there for a reason. I think when Obama took over he realized...damn...all this **** Ive been saying about GITMO...we are STILL capturing those same kind of bad guys. Which is why they opened a GITMO Middle Eastern branch and have denied those people their constitutional rights. They arent US citizens and they are captiured committing acts of global terror. I think you have to do SOMETHING with them.

  2. #52
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If I for a second believed we could send those terrorists to say Pakistan for trial and that they would be jailed forever and ever Id be fine with shutting down GITMO. But these folks are there for a reason. I think when Obama took over he realized...damn...all this **** Ive been saying about GITMO...we are STILL capturing those same kind of bad guys. Which is why they opened a GITMO Middle Eastern branch and have denied those people their constitutional rights. They arent US citizens and they are captiured committing acts of global terror. I think you have to do SOMETHING with them.
    I think the Geneva convention has provisions for dealing with prisoners of war.

  3. #53
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Oh, I agree with a lot of that. I did not support the Bush bailout. The spending that I approve of is on the area of infrastucture construction...building roads, schools, etc. That's the same thing we did during the great depression, and it kept people working, and those buildings and roads benefitted everyone.
    Even the infrastructure spending tho only keeps existing crews working. They would have to do MORE to hire new people. And when you look at the bulk of that spending it is going to city and state governments to pay workers...which means the states failing systems are just being temporarily shored up without being fixed.

  4. #54
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I think the Geneva convention has provisions for dealing with prisoners of war.
    Thats fine when you are dealing with prisoners of war. The war on terror is a theoretical construct. We arent 'at war' with any country. Terrorists dont qiualify under the geneva conventionand damn sure dont follow it.

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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Thats fine when you are dealing with prisoners of war. The war on terror is a theoretical construct. We arent 'at war' with any country. Terrorists dont qiualify under the geneva conventionand damn sure dont follow it.
    So we should come down to their level? I thought were supposed to be a civilized country.

  6. #56
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    My personal issue with it is that it pains me to see us compromising what should be a core value of this country for any reason. The founders say that "all men are created equal" and I believe it to be true and as such, we should be giving them due process. If they are found to be guilty, I don't care if they are jailed in Cuba or wherever, but I don't like the way its being handled. Gitmo, I think is a symbol of the real problem.
    Except there is no basis for law enforcement and trial to arrest a pakistani trained in Syria conducting terror acts in Bali. Who has jurisdiction? All men ARE created equal. When those men decide they have the right to conduct acts of terrorism they face consequence...just like a murderer...and sometimes that consequence is life imprisonment.

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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Except there is no basis for law enforcement and trial to arrest a pakistani trained in Syria conducting terror acts in Bali. Who has jurisdiction? All men ARE created equal. When those men decide they have the right to conduct acts of terrorism they face consequence...just like a murderer...and sometimes that consequence is life imprisonment.
    I am not disputing the fact that they need to face consequences, but they need a trial first. How do we even know we got the right person?

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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    So we should come down to their level? I thought were supposed to be a civilized country.
    Yep...we should. If you ever want to defeat them...then yes.

    think about it. We are talking about people that wrap primer chord around the necks of school children and detonate it...who rape murder and mutilate 12 year old girls in India, who blow up clubs in Bali for Gods sake...who slaughter families in Tibet...all while chanting the great and glorious name and cause of Allah.

    Yes...you recognize who you are actually dealing with, and you fight them...and you defeat them. period.

  9. #59
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I am not disputing the fact that they need to face consequences, but they need a trial first. How do we even know we got the right person?
    Mega...seriously...think about what you are saying. These people are typically caught in firefights. they are caught or wounded in the act. This isnt the Memphis PD investigating and accumulating evidence and serving warrants and subpoenas...these are terrorists caught planning or attempting to slaughter innocent men, women, and children. Military courts are the ONLY arena they could be tried in.

    I suspect Obama kinda had that same wide eyed innocent outlook too...right up until he became the commander in chief and realized who he was actually dealing with.

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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    In various threads, whenever the mistakes of Bush are brought up, some people always seem to want to bury the past and act like it never happened so they can blame everything on Obama instead.

    So, in your opinion, how effective is this strategy?
    There's the blame it on Bush crowd now, there was the blame it on Clinton crowd before. Same tactics, different parties. What we should realize is not just that Bush ****ed us over pretty good, but that Obama is keeping that tradition alive.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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