View Poll Results: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

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  • Very Convincing

    1 5.26%
  • Somewhat Convincing

    1 5.26%
  • Neither

    2 10.53%
  • Somewhat Unconvincing

    1 5.26%
  • Very Unconvincing

    14 73.68%
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Thread: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

  1. #41
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't remember Bush wanting to do that, but if he did, than my opinion of him will go up.
    Yea, I remember there was a lot of talk about Bush trying to shut it down. He got everyone except the "hard" cases out, and then that obviously remains the problem today. It was never as pronounced as issuing an Executive Order etc, but it was definitely something that he seemed to want to close down. It really became more of a liability than anything else.

    My guess is that he did not realize how hard it would be until he won the election and start taking on the job.
    Maybe.

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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I don't view Bush embroiling us in a land war in Asia as a negative. I don't even blame him for doing it initially, which was Afghanistan. While I think Iraq was horribly handled, I don't have an issue with its invasion in theory.
    I don't have a problem with war. I'm not some kind of namby pamby pacifist. Some people need killing. I'm okay with us killing them. However, WE DO NOT, as a nation, put our military forces in harm's way without having clear objectives and an exit strategy. That's a lesson we should have learned in Vietnam, but Bush apparently didn't learn that.

    The powers of the executive and growing it, that I will give you. However I would not put him “significantly” ahead of Obama on that simply because Obama is reinforcing them every step of the way.
    And similarly, I'm troubled by the fact that Obama isn't changing this.

    That is absolutely too, he did not get us into the war. And getting out is almost always more difficult. However, again, I do not see him “better” here. As I said, getting into the wars is not something I have an issue with…its how they’ve been carried out. And on that, Obama’s been no better than Bush, just different imho.
    Actually, there were multiple ways in which we could have responded to 9/11. I'd have been 100% in favor of bombing the **** out of a-stan and never putting a single soldier on the ground. But you are correct, Obama has not had a better plan.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 08-02-10 at 12:36 PM.

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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I give Obama props for what he has done right...but the only thing I have seen him be 'right' on is his efforts in combating domestic terrorism. Of course Obama cant be blamed for the 14 trillion dollar debt...but he can be blamed for upping it 4 trillion in just 2 years (or, like Bush any budget deficits he authorizes). I dont know how we can consider an increase in unemployment and a stagnant economy as a success, nor the stagnant war effort a success. certainly the gulf oil debacle is a nightmare. Id be THRILLED and I mean that if his policies spelled economic success...and I will eat my words if they are successful. but you CANT spend your way out of a recession when you are just spending on social handout programs. and Im just not seeing the growth potential. I hope I am wrong.
    I don't know. I think the recession was serious enough that without some federal spending, we might have remained mired in it for years. I don't know if his policies will succeed, only that I think that something needed to be done. I'm not a fan of directed dollars for specific companies, though, and the original bailout was spearheaded by Bush. Employment was already taking a nosedive under Bush, so that's nothing new, that's just part of the financial mess that Obama inherited.

    As far as the gulf goes, I'm directly impacted by that, and I've adopted a wait-and-see attitude. I'm not going to say that Obama has mishandled it, but I'm not happy about the situation.

    Of course, Obama would have to suck pretty damn hard to be equal to Bush. Has he sucked that hard? I'm not sure.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 08-02-10 at 12:38 PM.

  4. #44
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I think a president can muck things up more easily than they can fix it and their capacity for damage is greater than their capacity to fix things. Its the nature of the office I think.

    For example, lets look at Gitmo. Setting up the place was relatively easy, shutting the place down is proving to be very difficult. Its the same with the wars, wire taps etc. One of our problems with the way the government is currently set up is each time a new territory is opened up, it can be hard to close it back down again. This is one of the reasons why your leadership argument doesn't work for me.
    Seriously...and this is just us talking now...no conservative...no liberal...just two people...

    What is the objection to the existence of GITMO??? We have terrorists...not enemy combatants, not soldiers in a war...TERRORISTS...people that have been through multiple vetting processes and been determined to be the most dangerous of the most dangerous...and we cant bring them to the US to face trial and we cant send them anywhere eles and we certainly cant risk just letting them go...so what is the problem with detaining these people indefinitely until they are no longer of intelligence value or represent a threat to the US?

    I honestly believe peoples objections to GITMO are purely a kneejerk response to Geroge Bush. How many people are up in arms about the fact that Obama is doing the SAME THING...denying constitutional rights and keeping people in American prisons in Afghanistan? Seriously...the answer to that question is few if any even give a ****. because...oh yeah...they are TERRORISTS...

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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I don't know. I think the recession was serious enough that without some federal spending, we might have remained mired in it for years. I don't know if his policies will succeed, only that I think that something needed to be done. I'm not a fan of directed dollars for specific companies, though, and the original bailout was spearheaded by Bush. Employment was already taking a nosedive under Bush, so that's nothing new, that's just part of the financial mess that Obama inherited.
    Im not even opposed to government spending...but in order for it to be effective it has to be attached to a COMMODITY which then brings about jobs. Thats kind of the problem I have with all our social spending that the fed is doing now. They arent creating jobs...they arent bringing about the creation of jobs.

    And I still believe the Bush bank bailouts were a bad idea...and I dont think the crash has been avoided...just delayed. The housing market HAS to crash. As unhappy as that may be...it HAS to. Housing costs have to be allowed to correct. thats not going to happen as long as things are maintainted at an artificially high level.

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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    What is the objection to the existence of GITMO??? We have terrorists...not enemy combatants, not soldiers in a war...TERRORISTS...people that have been through multiple vetting processes and been determined to be the most dangerous of the most dangerous....
    I don't trust my government, or for that matter, ANY government, to hold people indefinitely without access to an attorney or without having their day in court. If they are, as you profess, clearly terrorists, then there should be no difficulty in presenting the evidence against them, even if it is only before a military tribunal. We've been holding some of these people for years. Some people have even DIED in captivity, perhaps through torture.

    That's not the kind of power I want to see any government have, and I'm certainly not about to trust that they are who the government says they are, just because they say so. That's a dangerous precedent, and just because it's not us being held there doesn't mean we should allow our fears to overrule our fundamental principles as a nation.

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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Im not even opposed to government spending...but in order for it to be effective it has to be attached to a COMMODITY which then brings about jobs. Thats kind of the problem I have with all our social spending that the fed is doing now. They arent creating jobs...they arent bringing about the creation of jobs.

    And I still believe the Bush bank bailouts were a bad idea...and I dont think the crash has been avoided...just delayed. The housing market HAS to crash. As unhappy as that may be...it HAS to. Housing costs have to be allowed to correct. thats not going to happen as long as things are maintainted at an artificially high level.
    Oh, I agree with a lot of that. I did not support the Bush bailout. The spending that I approve of is on the area of infrastucture construction...building roads, schools, etc. That's the same thing we did during the great depression, and it kept people working, and those buildings and roads benefitted everyone.

  8. #48
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Seriously...and this is just us talking now...no conservative...no liberal...just two people...

    What is the objection to the existence of GITMO??? We have terrorists...not enemy combatants, not soldiers in a war...TERRORISTS...people that have been through multiple vetting processes and been determined to be the most dangerous of the most dangerous...and we cant bring them to the US to face trial and we cant send them anywhere eles and we certainly cant risk just letting them go...so what is the problem with detaining these people indefinitely until they are no longer of intelligence value or represent a threat to the US?

    I honestly believe peoples objections to GITMO are purely a kneejerk response to Geroge Bush. How many people are up in arms about the fact that Obama is doing the SAME THING...denying constitutional rights and keeping people in American prisons in Afghanistan? Seriously...the answer to that question is few if any even give a ****. because...oh yeah...they are TERRORISTS...
    My personal issue with it is that it pains me to see us compromising what should be a core value of this country for any reason. The founders say that "all men are created equal" and I believe it to be true and as such, we should be giving them due process. If they are found to be guilty, I don't care if they are jailed in Cuba or wherever, but I don't like the way its being handled. Gitmo, I think is a symbol of the real problem.

  9. #49
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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Seriously...and this is just us talking now...no conservative...no liberal...just two people...

    What is the objection to the existence of GITMO??? We have terrorists...not enemy combatants, not soldiers in a war...TERRORISTS...people that have been through multiple vetting processes and been determined to be the most dangerous of the most dangerous...and we cant bring them to the US to face trial and we cant send them anywhere eles and we certainly cant risk just letting them go...so what is the problem with detaining these people indefinitely until they are no longer of intelligence value or represent a threat to the US?
    The problem becomes, when will that ever happen?

    I honestly believe peoples objections to GITMO are purely a kneejerk response to Geroge Bush. How many people are up in arms about the fact that Obama is doing the SAME THING...denying constitutional rights and keeping people in American prisons in Afghanistan? Seriously...the answer to that question is few if any even give a ****. because...oh yeah...they are TERRORISTS...
    I have no problem with the existence of GITMO, but from a political standpoint, I think you can agree it has become a major liability.

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    Re: How convincing is the ignore Bush strategy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Obama was placed in a very bad situation no doubt. Has he made mistakes, yes, no doubt. But are all of this country's problems Obama's fault, no. Bush did leave alot of baggage, and its hard to ignore that, even if the right would like too.
    Wait a minute...I have always been told us liberals worship Obama and think everything he does is right...
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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