View Poll Results: Individualism or Collectivism?

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  • Individualism

    33 76.74%
  • Collectivism

    10 23.26%
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Thread: Individualism or Collectivism?

  1. #41
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    Re: Individualism or Collectivism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Individualism is to freedom as collectivism is to slavery.

    Gee, I wonder which one I'd rather have.
    So you oppose the military, the police and fire department? Good to know.

    See how stupid absolute statements and rhetoric are?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  2. #42
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    Re: Individualism or Collectivism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think the question is better suited for people who have a better ability to grasp abstract ideals for sure. Mostly because we're dealing with terms of utopia mixed with application. There's nothing innate to that socialist system which keeps you from not starving. It was hell in many communist/socialist states in reality. Sure the ideal is great....I suppose, if you're into that thing. But the ideal for anarchy is the same way. It's not that you sit there and starve, it's that you get to make your own food, or you can exchange your work for whatever you want. Nothing is given, but nothing is forced.

    But this is part of the complications of fictional hypothetical questions. Because in the end, I doubt many people really push for 100% one way of the other since the practical implications of the systems makes them unable to be sustained in and of themselves.
    If it were ideal forms of either system, I would probably choose equally between them because ultimately they would be the same thing. Essentially both would be like living on a self sufficient colony. If you don't work you don't eat (due to survival pressures, I am assuming scarcity still exists) while everyone would probably also share and share alike (we would all likely find a specialization)

  3. #43
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    Re: Individualism or Collectivism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So you oppose the military, the police and fire department? Good to know.

    See how stupid absolute statements and rhetoric are?
    Those are all volunteer in our country.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #44
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    Re: Individualism or Collectivism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Hey look, making up crap about the position of people we disagree with. How unusual...
    What does that mean? I don't get it.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  5. #45
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    Re: Individualism or Collectivism?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    If it were ideal forms of either system, I would probably choose equally between them because ultimately they would be the same thing. Essentially both would be like living on a self sufficient colony. If you don't work you don't eat while everyone would probably also share and share alike.
    Mostly. Well in an anarchic state I think there would probably still be class structure even in the ideal. Maybe not so much with socialism, but who really knows. It's not like any of us have seen these systems worked out to their ideal. Maybe in the socialist state less people starve since everyone works and gets an equal share. But there's no way to become outstanding in such a system. There's no way to advance, or to save up, or to reward harder work. In the individualist society there may be greater chance to go hungry, but you get what you put in. So if you work hard, you get a lot. And if you don't want to work hard, you get a little.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #46
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    Re: Individualism or Collectivism?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Living freely would be great, but I think in such a condition, the hard accomplishment would be the living part. Most people would die.
    Why? We survived for centuries. Dare I say, many millenia.

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    Re: Individualism or Collectivism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Mostly. Well in an anarchic state I think there would probably still be class structure even in the ideal. Maybe not so much with socialism, but who really knows. It's not like any of us have seen these systems worked out to their ideal. Maybe in the socialist state less people starve since everyone works and gets an equal share. But there's no way to become outstanding in such a system. There's no way to advance, or to save up, or to reward harder work. In the individualist society there may be greater chance to go hungry, but you get what you put in. So if you work hard, you get a lot. And if you don't want to work hard, you get a little.
    I guess that depends on whether you see human nature change in such a system. In either system, nobody would like to see their fellow colonist starve and would have compassion, unless they are people without empathy and were built for capitalism. Than maybe they would. I guess it depends on how far you want to go.

    Also, you mention advancement. Again, in a robinson crusoe type situation, what would you have the opportunity to advance to? If it were anarchistic, there would probably be no person in charge.

  8. #48
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    Re: Individualism or Collectivism?

    Instead of speaking of the extremes, which are purely hypothetical, just answer the question of whether or not you prefer a government that is more individualist or more collectivist. It is a given that the Individualist extreme is not a govermnent at all and that peoples' most basic needs cannot be adequately met in the collectivist extreme--and so their will be a mix. Which way would you have it tilt though?

    I think this is what the OP was asking when he asked which you would prioritize.

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    Re: Individualism or Collectivism?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Why? We survived for centuries. Dare I say, many millenia.
    I think most of our history, we have had tribal societies which would be a form of government, so it does not meet the criteria for extreme individualism which would require anarchy (no rules of any sort)
    Last edited by tacomancer; 08-02-10 at 01:58 PM.

  10. #50
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    Re: Individualism or Collectivism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Those are all volunteer in our country.
    And all paid for by the collective.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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