View Poll Results: Have you ever lost out on a job due to illegal immigrants?

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  • Yes I have, explain please

    4 11.43%
  • No I haven't

    25 71.43%
  • No I haven't but I have seen others lose their jobs because of illegal immigrants

    2 5.71%
  • other

    4 11.43%
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Thread: Have you ever lost out on a job due to illegal immigrants?

  1. #21
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    Re: Have you ever lost out on a job due to illegal immigrants?

    Hatuey pretty much hit upon it. Welcome to the wild, wild world of capitalism. It's free market, where the survival is still of the fittest.

    This is what happens when America thinks they're entitled to everything, including jobs. But instead of becoming more competitive, we just bitch. It's Japan in the late 80s all over again. America doesn't want to get leaner and meaner, so they brainwash people into hyper-protectionism and villify people for buying something cheaper and better because it's produced overseas.

    Personally, I welcome it to an extent. Instead of having some lazy piece of crap whine about how he can do the most basic of jobs for minimum wage, Hector will do it for half the price, with a huge grin on his face, and the respect of saying "si, senor". Sorry, I don't have a tilde on this keyboard.

    Hector embraces the system, so why can't we?

  2. #22
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    Re: Have you ever lost out on a job due to illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Hatuey pretty much hit upon it. Welcome to the wild, wild world of capitalism. It's free market, where the survival is still of the fittest.

    This is what happens when America thinks they're entitled to everything, including jobs. But instead of becoming more competitive, we just bitch. It's Japan in the late 80s all over again. America doesn't want to get leaner and meaner, so they brainwash people into hyper-protectionism and villify people for buying something cheaper and better because it's produced overseas.

    Personally, I welcome it to an extent. Instead of having some lazy piece of crap whine about how he can do the most basic of jobs for minimum wage, Hector will do it for half the price, with a huge grin on his face, and the respect of saying "si, senor". Sorry, I don't have a tilde on this keyboard.

    Hector embraces the system, so why can't we?
    If Hector is here illegally then he has no right embracing capitalism in the US.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #23
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    Re: Have you ever lost out on a job due to illegal immigrants?

    Much of that is the fault of the US. It's the same protectionism I mentioned earlier that happened 20-25 years ago. By keeping illegals COMPLETELY out, we drive up prices on goods because costs (specifically labor) are passed on to the ultimate consumer. Now, do I think we should open the flood gates and let them all come over? Hell no, that would be idiocy. However, a good chunk of them over here is very beneficial.

    The problem I have is when illegals come over here and milk the system in the form of public funds, assistance programs, and generally wasting tax dollars. If you had every illegal over here do three things, I would not only have nothing negative about it, but I'd wholly encourage it - and those are speak English, pay taxes, and don't abuse the system.

    Hell, I get pissed enough when our OWN people leech. Maybe we can make an even trade with Mexico. They can send us up the hard workers who will respect the system, and we can send them unwed welfare mothers, and crack hos.

    If you ask me, we'd make out like bandits.

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    Re: Have you ever lost out on a job due to illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Der taking our jobs!!!

    I have yet to see this honestly..I suppose if you were looking to be a maid or fruit picker.
    You have to be one of the most mature members on this forum. Your incessant picking at people who disagree with you is quite just. I really like it when you go on to actually poke fun at those who are losing their jobs or job opputunities to people who can't be bothered to follow our laws.

    Thank you for your consistant maturity. Keep up the good work.

  5. #25
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    Re: Have you ever lost out on a job due to illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Much of that is the fault of the US. It's the same protectionism I mentioned earlier that happened 20-25 years ago. By keeping illegals COMPLETELY out, we drive up prices on goods because costs (specifically labor) are passed on to the ultimate consumer..

    The "Price of Tomatoes will skyrocket" is a favorite argument of pro-illegals next to lies of racism, xenophobia or anti-immigration.




    The Seattle Times: Local News: Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices


    More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.

    You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.

    The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

    The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.

    Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

    At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

    And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 ½ hours for an acre of wheat.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Have you ever lost out on a job due to illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The "Price of Tomatoes will skyrocket" is a favorite argument of pro-illegals next to lies of racism, xenophobia or anti-immigration.

    The Seattle Times: Local News: Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices


    More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.

    You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.

    The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

    The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.

    Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

    At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

    And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 ½ hours for an acre of wheat.
    If you had bothered to actually read the rest of his post you'd have seen it has more to do with the feeling of entitlement American workers have in regards to jobs. Harry Guerilla said it best, he wants to be paid more to kill chickens. Why? What makes killing chickens for 12 hours worth more than $10 an hour? What makes it worth more than $5 an hour? If I want to pay less for unskilled labor why shouldn't I? Instead of competition you have a market of entitlement. You believe you should be paid more for your services than a worker doing the same job in Pakistan. Illegal immigrants keep everybody else competitive in their prices. Instead of having workers engage in cartel-like practices they keep their prices in competititon.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  7. #27
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    Re: Have you ever lost out on a job due to illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If you had bothered to actually read the rest of his post you'd have seen it has more to do with the feeling of entitlement American workers have in regards to jobs.
    His post was still using the if we don't have illegals picking our veggies then prices will skyrocket argument.

    Harry Guerilla said it best, he wants to be paid more to kill chickens. Why? What makes killing chickens for 12 hours worth more than $10 an hour?What makes it worth more than $5 an hour?
    Have you ever killed chickens in a factory before? How do you know its not worth more than $10 dollars an hour? A college degree doesn't mean you should be paid the big bucks either,especially if the labor market is flooded with workers with a certain college degree.

    If I want to pay less for unskilled labor why shouldn't I?
    Unskilled does not equal easy work. PLus you should be able to dictate what ever wages you want(assuming it doesn't go below minimum wage) as long as you can get legal American workers to work for those wages. However if you can't get legal workers to work for those wages , then you need to up the pay until they do.Supply and demand works both ways. If the demand for labor exceeds the labor available then wages shall go up regardless if it just standing on a corner with a sign, picking vegetables, construction(which is not unskilled labor), maid, artist(now days does not require actual talent), teacher, doctor, garbageman or what ever else.

    Instead of competition you have a market of entitlement. You believe you should be paid more for your services than a worker doing the same job in Pakistan.
    I am sure the second your job can be outsourced or they can find an illegal to do it you might change your tune.

    Illegal immigrants keep everybody else competitive in their prices.
    So if factories wanted to use slave labor it would be slaves keeps everybody else competitive?

    Instead of having workers engage in cartel-like practices they keep their prices in competititon.
    You are comparing workers wanting a decent job for the work they do and employers punished for hiring illegals to crime organization?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #28
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    Re: Have you ever lost out on a job due to illegal immigrants?

    Yes. Technically we have all lost out on jobs due to illegal immigrants. Illegals prevent job growth and prevent people from hiring Americans when they could hire illegals who can be abused by the employer with no backlash.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Have you ever lost out on a job due to illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    His post was still using the if we don't have illegals picking our veggies then prices will skyrocket argument.
    And it would because there would not be a competing workforce.

    Have you ever killed chickens in a factory before? How do you know its not worth more than $10 dollars an hour? A college degree doesn't mean you should be paid the big bucks either,especially if the labor market is flooded with workers with a certain college degree.

    Unskilled does not equal easy work. PLus you should be able to dictate what ever wages you want(assuming it doesn't go below minimum wage) as long as you can get legal American workers to work for those wages. However if you can't get legal workers to work for those wages , then you need to up the pay until they do.Supply and demand works both ways. If the demand for labor exceeds the labor available then wages shall go up regardless if it just standing on a corner with a sign, picking vegetables, construction(which is not unskilled labor), maid, artist(now days does not require actual talent), teacher, doctor, garbageman or what ever else.
    That is so ridiculous it's not even funny. The reason college degrees are in high demand are because of how FEW people actually have degrees. If 70% of our workforce had degrees then you'd have a point. However there are very few economies where a sizeable percentage of the population has high education levels and thus why their jobs are highly paid. As opposed to killing chickens. Which you know, is not something you need to study or invest time and money into. The argumen which has been made here is that legal or illegal, there will still be millions of people willing to do your job for cheaper. What happens when legal immigrants start taking your jobs because they're willing to pay for less? Will you suggest kicking the legal ones out? What happens when people in India are given factory jobs because they're willing to work for less? Will you suggest protectionist policy?

    I am sure the second your job can be outsourced or they can find an illegal to do it you might change your tune.
    Well my job could be outsourced to South Korea I guess. But I'm not too worried about it.

    So if factories wanted to use slave labor it would be slaves keeps everybody else competitive?
    That is a strawman. Slavery is INVOLUNTARY labor. As opposed to what we're talking about. Which is. You know. People entering into consensual agreements to work for less.

    You are comparing workers wanting a decent job for the work they do and employers punished for hiring illegals to crime organization?
    No. I am discussing the feeling of entitlement Americans have to better jobs. Nobody should be paid $15 an hour simply because they think their hard work is worht a lot. Cheap labor is cheap labor. If you can get somebody to VOLUNTARILY do it for less, why the hell not?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #30
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    Re: Have you ever lost out on a job due to illegal immigrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    How much do you expect to get paid for a job where you require no training and a person with a 5th grade education could do efficiently? This is what kills me about the argument that immigrants are taking your jobs. If we didn't have illegal immigrants and you lost your job to some 16 year old would you then argue we should kick them all out? If you lost it to ghetto rat from Brooklyn would you say we need to kick the poor out? There will always be somebody willing to do things cheaper than you. And if they won't do it? Somebody else will. It's one of the downsides of the free market. Unless your job requires education, skill etc, somebody else will do it for far less money than you will.
    Yea it doesn't require much education, I never said it did but then again there is a localized minimum wage which is usually above the national minimum wage for doing these type of things.
    This is unpleasant work.

    These people are allowed to ignore zoning laws, vehicle insurance laws and many other things that would naturally keep these wages above what they are paying now.

    You have problems man, I wouldn't bitch if a legal resident wanted to do the work for less.
    Unfortunately for you, the "market" (it's not free by any means) has legal boundaries we are all supposed to live in, including residency.
    When you allow some of these people to ignore it and many other things, it gives them an unfair advantage.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 08-01-10 at 05:36 PM.
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