View Poll Results: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

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Thread: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

  1. #221
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Except you didn't respond to it. All you said is "i'm doing the same thing I'm suggesting people are doing elsewhere" and I've responded over and over again how no, I'm not, that its a completely different situation.

    you then keep going "I agree with you" which makes no sense because you earlier stated that you disagreed with me.

    I'm still waiting for you to actually explain how what I'm doing is the same, since I've shown repeatedly why it isn't. Or at the very least for you to explain to me why you think my reasoning I've stated is incorrect.

    You've done neither.

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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Except you didn't respond to it. All you said is "i'm doing the same thing I'm suggesting people are doing elsewhere" and I've responded over and over again how no, I'm not, that its a completely different situation.

    you then keep going "I agree with you" which makes no sense because you earlier stated that you disagreed with me.

    I'm still waiting for you to actually explain how what I'm doing is the same, since I've shown repeatedly why it isn't. Or at the very least for you to explain to me why you think my reasoning I've stated is incorrect.

    You've done neither.
    No, I said more than that. It's unlike you to simply ignore someone's posts like this.

    But no matter; I'm not going to repeat it, because I already responded. Pretend I didn't if you like, but this is going nowhere.
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  3. #223
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Okay, since you're accusing me of ignoring your points I'll go line by line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    But you're doing the same thing.
    No, I'm not. See my multiple posts that you've continually simply disregarded as saying "I'm saying the same things" without actually countering them that shows that what I'm doing with Lott is entirely different.

    Lott says that's not what he meant.
    That may be the case, but there was zero context prior to his statement for someone to believe that was the case. He made a broad statement in support of a man whose presidency was focused on segregationism.

    Even after this statement, its still a coin flip whether or not someone believes him because:

    1) He's admitted supporting segregation in the past
    2) He didn't clarify exactly what it is then about a man whose primary goal was segregationism that he thought would've caused America's problems not to be prsent today.

    There's nothing comparable in Lott's repertoire to support that the segrationist platform is what he meant.
    First, as I've said in other posts that you refuse to refute, there doesn't need to be something in Lott's repertoire for that. He gave BROAD support for a man whose primary focus and purpose in his run for the Presidency was segregation and whose platform was entirely based off segregationist views.

    Second, Lott had expressed support for such views in the past.

    They glommed onto a sentence, assumed he meant something, and that became the narrative.
    As I've said in my other posts you refuse to acknowledge, please...I've yet to find anything beyond that sentence. If you can provide me with something further that shows Lott speaking of what specifically about Thurmonds presidency he was speaking of would've been helpful I'll happily rescind my thought. However he stated it broadly, so its assumed to be meant broadly.

    The context says he should get the benefit of the doubt
    No, it doesn't. See all my previous posts.

    exactly as the context says Harry Reid should get the benefit of the doubt for his "light-skinned negro" comments
    I don't think we should give Reid a "pass" for that, but I also don't think its worthy of a lot of hate either. I don't see it as a racist comment, I see it as a definitely RACIAL one though and I don't think anything really counters that from the context. The only thing one could say is that "negro" dialect is "racist" as it would be more politically correct to refer to it as an "urban" dialect, but I'd counter that the dialect he's speaking of is more commonly found and embraced amongst african-american communities in part due to thier higher proliferation within ubran areas but also because some of the more celebrity status members of that community use it as well (such as rappers).

    or Clinton and his "bringing us coffee" comment.
    I don't see this as a definitively racist comment. Could it be? Yes. But its not nearly as clear cut or broad of a thing as Lott's. The notion of the young guy or the "rookie" being hazed or being a "servent" of suchs is not an uncommon one. Look at football, where rookies are routinely the ones having to carry the shoulder pads of veterans. Look at the work place, where people who are new are usually given the "bitch work" like filing in an office or other such things. Hell, I can look at online communities where new mods or admin are joked about as the "coffee boy" or jokes about them essentially being the "bitch" may occur. The notion that the "rookie" or the "younger people" are subservient to "veterans" is hardly an unusual one, and Clinton's comment can read just as easily as a comment that this guy is still wet under his nose/basically a rookie as it does "This guy would've been our slave!" Indeed, since people didn't have slaves "a few years ago" I actually think its far MORE likely that its a reference to the veteran/rookie mentality more so than the owner/slave mentality.

    And more so Lotts comment is nothing like Obama's comment. Obama went into detail, explaining with context enough to give a good indication that:

    1. He wasn't referring to mongrel like a dog
    2. He wasn't being derogatory to black people
    3. He was speaking about mixing of ethnicity

    From what I've seen Trent Lott when he made his comments gave no additional context, but simply made a broad comment that is reasonable to consider broadly.

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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    No, I don't think Reid or Clinton made racist remarks; I never said I thought they did. I didn't automatically assume that they were, even though on the surface, they sounded pretty bad.

    However, the flap over Lott IS comparable, because what he said wasn't racist on its face -- but the flap started immediately. It could be if you dig into it and interpret it a particular way; I never denied that. But he says he didn't mean it that way. And in fact, several of his Democrat colleagues said they don't think he meant it that way.

    He said it was an off-the-cuff toast to a friend.

    If he DID mean it in a pro-segregationist way, it still wasn't obvious from his words. The point was never that Lott couldn't possibly have meant it that way, only that people were more than willing to jump on it without caring to find out.
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, I said more than that. It's unlike you to simply ignore someone's posts like this.

    But no matter; I'm not going to repeat it, because I already responded. Pretend I didn't if you like, but this is going nowhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    ......
    And more so Lotts comment is nothing like Obama's comment. Obama went into detail, explaining with context enough to give a good indication that:

    1. He wasn't referring to mongrel like a dog
    2. He wasn't being derogatory to black people
    3. He was speaking about mixing of ethnicity

    From what I've seen Trent Lott when he made his comments gave no additional context, but simply made a broad comment that is reasonable to consider broadly.
    So much arguments arise only because how one word should be understood.

    I am baffled to see why a certain group of people have so many words that are untouchable to serve in their identification. In sequence of time: Negro, Nigger, black, color, now mongrel, although one may be less unwelcome than the other. How can we be sure that "African American" will not become offensive someday?

    The only fair definition of racism is that what one race can enjoy is not allowed to be equally enjoyed by another race. If one race can enjoy the same thing as the other one, no racism exists between these two races.

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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Where in the world am I saying "mongrel = racism"

    I've said "mongrel when used as a reference to a wild dog or a savage or something less than human" is insulting. I've even specifically referenced that in ways other than black guys. If a women called a white guy a "mongrel" because he sleeps around with women without a care that would be just as insulting as if she called a black person that.

    Mongrel is not a racist word, though using it to suggest black people are savages/dogs/below human would be a racist action.

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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    No, I don't think Reid or Clinton made racist remarks; I never said I thought they did. I didn't automatically assume that they were, even though on the surface, they sounded pretty bad.

    However, the flap over Lott IS comparable, because what he said wasn't racist on its face -- but the flap started immediately. It could be if you dig into it and interpret it a particular way; I never denied that. But he says he didn't mean it that way. And in fact, several of his Democrat colleagues said they don't think he meant it that way.

    He said it was an off-the-cuff toast to a friend.

    If he DID mean it in a pro-segregationist way, it still wasn't obvious from his words. The point was never that Lott couldn't possibly have meant it that way, only that people were more than willing to jump on it without caring to find out.
    No, one only needed a moderate understanding of what Strom Thurmond and the Dixiecrat Platform was...which was focused around segregation...to consider that his BROAD endorsement of how much better it would've been under Thurmond included support for segregation seeing how that was the prime focus of Thurmonds campaign.

    This is entirely different than assuming that "get us coffee" immedietely was racist as there's an equally if not more reasonable assumption to be made.

    If one has any knowledge of Thurmond/the Dixiecrats, the most reasonable assumptions based on a broad support for them would be at least partial support for segregationist policies.

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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, one only needed a moderate understanding of what Strom Thurmond and the Dixiecrat Platform was...which was focused around segregation...to consider that his BROAD endorsement of how much better it would've been under Thurmond included support for segregation seeing how that was the prime focus of Thurmonds campaign.

    This is entirely different than assuming that "get us coffee" immedietely was racist as there's an equally if not more reasonable assumption to be made.

    If one has any knowledge of Thurmond/the Dixiecrats, the most reasonable assumptions based on a broad support for them would be at least partial support for segregationist policies.
    Yes, Zyph; it's an assumption, which is the entire point. But, whatever; I guess you've just gotta be right.

    It wasn't even anything more than a tangent to a larger point anyway.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Mongrel is not a racist word, though using it to suggest black people are savages/dogs/below human would be a racist action.
    Exactly. But somehow some people just associate it with negative meaning and tell people: "Don't use that word, it belongs to, or at least suggests, my identification."

  10. #230
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    A qualified Yes, African Americans who can trace their ancestry back to slavery because slave masters had sex with female slaves.

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