View Poll Results: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

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Thread: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

  1. #161
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    I'm still wondering who talks like this.
    Obama, of course.

    I would never think to call ANY group "a mongrel people". Seems very odd to me. Does he intentionally say things to get a rise out of people?
    I think he just uses the terms in an accurate manner and doesn't avoid certain terms simply because people commonly misconstrue them as negatively connotated terms.

    The definition of "mongrel" in websters is :

    Main Entry: mon·grel
    Pronunciation: \ˈmäŋ-grəl, ˈməŋ-\
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English, probably from mong mixture, short for ymong, from Old English gemong crowd — more at among
    Date: 15th century

    1 : an individual resulting from the interbreeding of diverse breeds or strains; especially : one of unknown ancestry
    2 : a cross between types of persons or things
    The term is absolutley accurate in the context he gave it in.

    The issue is that most peopel jump om the connotation first, something I myself am guilty of. For example, when I saw the title of this thread, I clicked on it because my initial thought was "WTF kind of quesiton is that?!?!?"

    This is because I'm as guilty as the next person of thinking abou the negative connotations of the word before thinking about the actual literal definition of the word.


    But when I read the statement in context, I realized that the literal definition was being used, not the negatively connotated colloquial version of the word.

    I'd like to think that race didn't matter regarding my realization, but I have to admit, I am unsure of that.

    It's easier to realize that there was no negative connotation when it was a black guy.

    Now, I know that political lean wouldn't matter for me. But I have to admit that there is chance that there is some degree of double standard regarding the race of the person making the comment.
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  2. #162
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I think he just uses the terms in an accurate manner and doesn't avoid certain terms simply because people commonly misconstrue them as negatively connotated terms.
    Would that we lived in a world where you could actually do that.

    That world is not even here at Debate Politics. I don't refer to this thread specifically in saying that.
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  3. #163
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    The great majority of Americans are mongrel. I know of at least six different countries of origin for my family and three different races.

    The most dominate being German (1/4) and Native American (1/8).
    Last edited by Gibberish; 07-30-10 at 12:46 PM.
    "Gold gets dug out of the ground in Africa, or someplace. Then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility. Anyone watching from Mars would be scratching their head."
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Would that we lived in a world where you could actually do that.
    I think the fact that this particular comment is news is proof that we don't live in such a world.

    But it doesn't mean that Obama is going to stop using the terms in an accurate fashion.
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  5. #165
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes Caine, you're absolutely correct.
    WHO says something does play into context.
    You people are REALLY beginning to bore me.

    How should have I asked it to bring it into context?
    And how would that have changed your response?

  6. #166
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Uncola View Post
    A nice, to the point, and very clearly defined explanation as to why, in this case and many others, ESPECIALLY politics, context is everything.
    How should have I asked it to bring it into context?
    And how would that have changed your response?

  7. #167
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I think the fact that this particular comment is news is proof that we don't live in such a world.

    But it doesn't mean that Obama is going to stop using the terms in an accurate fashion.
    He probably isn't. However, a few things about that.

    I think he was doing what you said in this instance, but I think you also may be giving him too much credit in others. He's said some god-awful stupid things ("Special Olympics," etc.) which indicate he might just be a bit tone-deaf. There are good and bad ways of saying things.

    Plus, he's the de facto head of a political bloc which champions things like hate speech laws, speech codes on campuses, and which gets into a tizzy when people say insensitive things. However academically accurate he might have been in the context, he must also be aware of how the word "mongrel" would sound. There's no way he couldn't be. So, he really does need to be playing it better.
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    I'm still wondering who talks like this. I would never think to call ANY group "a mongrel people". Seems very odd to me. Does he intentionally say things to get a rise out of people?
    To me Mongrel appears, in this case, to be similar to the use of "mutt" when describing people...something I've heard used often. I've seen individuals refer to others, and themselves, as a "mutt" before when they're heritage is mixed.

    IE, one person goes "He's Italian" cause they're a quarter italian or "He's Irish" cause they're a half irish" and someone goes "He's a mutt, he's like a 1/16th of a bunch of different things".

    Additionally, "He's a mutt" would have an entirely different context and connotation if it wasn't right after everyone talking about their ethnic makeup and instead was someone going "He's a mutt, he sleeps around with everyone", showing the implication is more about refering to the person as a dog then it is to referring to his mixed ethnicity.

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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You people are REALLY beginning to bore me.

    How should have I asked it to bring it into context?
    And how would that have changed your response?
    Simple.

    If your purpose is what it CLEARLY was, which was being spurred by Obama's comment and referencing his comment, you could've gone.

    "Do you agree with President Obama's belief that African-Americans are a mongrel people as he stated on the view?

    Pasted entry of his quotes from the view
    If your purpose was HONESTLY not trying to set a trap and were meaning this in an entirely generalized way you could've gone

    "Do you believe African-Americans are a mongrel people? I mean this as a general use of the word, not specifically in reference to the statements by the President recently on the view"
    See, history is something that doesn't just get ignored. Reputation doesn't get ignored. You have to deal with it. To give a real world current analogy, you are undergoing the same issue as Albert Haynesworth. He's got a reputation for being a diva, and as such is being treated like one immedietely rather than ASSUMING he's going to behave and be legit. Likewise, you have a distinctive and unquestionable history of making "gotcha" bait threads that have the sole purpose of providing you with hyper partisan fodder to attack people on by giving leading questions or partial comments and then attempting to spring traps on people by trying to apply a generalized comment they made to a specific situation. Due to your history you start out at a disadvantage and frankly its incumbant upon you to make an effort to show people that a thread is different than typical Goobie fare.

    This would be no different than if you saw Chuz Life wading into an abortion thread, or Cephus wading into a religion thread. They have an unquestionable history of doing/feeling/thinking/saying specific things so its reasonable to assume that unless they show otherwise THAT is what they'll be doing/feeling/thinking/saying. If they're coming at it from a different direction its going to be incumbant upon them to make an argument in such a way to make it clear that they are.

    You did not provide any additional context outside of JUST asking your question, meaning the only other context is that which you didn't provide...which is your posting history and style. You could've negated that context by providing more of your own, but you decided to forgo doing that...which, in and of itself, re-inforces the context concerning your normal behavior in these type of threads.

  10. #170
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    Re: Are African-Americans a mongrel people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    He probably isn't. However, a few things about that.

    I think he was doing what you said in this instance, but I think you also may be giving him too much credit in others. He's said some god-awful stupid things ("Special Olympics," etc.) which indicate he might just be a bit tone-deaf. There are good and bad ways of saying things.

    Plus, he's the de facto head of a political bloc which champions things like hate speech laws, speech codes on campuses, and which gets into a tizzy when people say insensitive things. However academically accurate he might have been in the context, he must also be aware of how the word "mongrel" would sound. There's no way he couldn't be. So, he really does need to be playing it better.
    The special Olympics comment was incredibly stupid. During the election, his "typical white person" was incredibly stupid, and his "clinging to guns and bibles" comment unbelievably so. However, can you think of any one who has spoken in public so often, on so many topics, who has not made some real unbelievably stupid comments? When you put yourself out there that much, sometimes you are going to **** it up. I have said some things on this board that where incredibly stupid, and done some things that where. Thankfully I am not in the spotlight, and text means I can edit away some of my worst ****ups.
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