View Poll Results: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

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Thread: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

  1. #61
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    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    It's possible for a man to patent a truly unique idea and become the sole purveyor of that product.

    Pet rocks didn't have much competition that I can recall. Problem with pet rocks was that the pets didn't die, so there was no replacement market.

    Generally, though, it's almost impossible for a company to establish a monopoly without the interference of government suppressing competition.

    Alcoa, if I recall, is one of the few examples of a monopolistic company eschewing abusive government power to attain and retain it's leadership position and relying instead on it's native innovative ability t meet it's customer's needs at a reasonable price.

    "Reasonable", of course, is that price which captures enough market share to discourage competition without suppressing their own market.

    And guess what? There's nothing wrong if a company can, by fair means, keep the lion's share of it's market to itself.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 07-27-10 at 03:16 AM.

  2. #62
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    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    It's possible for a man to patent a truly unique idea and become the sole purveyor of that product.

    Pet rocks didn't have much competition that I can recall. Problem with pet rocks was that the pets didn't die, so there was no replacement market.
    Your pet rocks are made in China despite the political bias thanks to the free market.. congrats.

  3. #63
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    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    It's possible for a man to patent a truly unique idea and become the sole purveyor of that product.

    Pet rocks didn't have much competition that I can recall. Problem with pet rocks was that the pets didn't die, so there was no replacement market.
    That's true, but also not an example strictly within the context of a completely free market. Patents are enforced by law. (not to be nitpicky or anything)

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    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    bleh done for the night, cheers and good luck to you all.

  5. #65
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    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Your pet rocks are made in China despite the political bias thanks to the free market.. congrats.
    "Are made"?

    You mean you bought one recently?

    The height of the fad died in the early 70's....

    And if someone is smart enough to get suckers to buy Chinese rocks, more power to them. That's what capitalism is about, getting people to want a product enough to shell out money for it.

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    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    That's true, but also not an example strictly within the context of a completely free market. Patents are enforced by law. (not to be nitpicky or anything)
    Yeah, funny how that works. Free markets are like every other freedom... protected by law.

    Duh.

    Without law there's no freedom, only anarchy leading to gang rule leading to warlordism leading to feudalism which eventually may lead to law, order, and freedom, after generations of misery, slavery, bloodshed and stagnation.

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    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Yeah, funny how that works. Free markets are like every other freedom... protected by law.
    Duh.
    Without law there's no freedom, only anarchy leading to gang rule leading to warlordism leading to feudalism which eventually may lead to law, order, and freedom, after generations of misery, slavery, bloodshed and stagnation.
    You are partially right, but with confusion, though. Free market means a place where transaction is done with the condition that the will of the seller and the buyer are fully respected. If it is genuinely so, no law is needed for its protection. Unfortunately, there are always some gangs who want to rob. In robbing, the gangs destroy the genuine free market. The gangs are not part of the free market itself, but the parasites, bacteria, virus, AIDS that must attack the free market for a profit. Unless the proper medicine, i.e, the law, is there, the free market is hijacked. It is not the fault of the free market, but the free market is taken advantaged by those who want to convert it into a place for forced transaction, not free transaction, on the gangs' behalf.

  8. #68
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    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by crebigsol View Post
    I don't quite get the point of your question. Does it mean that natural monopolies wouldn't exist in a free market? If it does mean so, I may have to disagree. Free market, if genuinely free, means genuine competition in business. In any kind of competition, in the natural world or in human society, governed by intelligence or not, eliminating the weak so that the strong one potentially becomes stronger is spontaneous. The end result must be funneled to monopoly. This is natural.
    Ok, since you brought up the "natural world," explain to me how lots of different species evolved from a single organism? By you're logic, we should have started out with lots of different organisms, and the weaker ones would have gotten weeded out until only the single strongest organism survived, giving it a "monopoly" on life.

    Clearly this is not the case, which suggests that in the natural world competition for resources breeds variety and more competition.

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    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Panache View Post
    Ok, since you brought up the "natural world," explain to me how lots of different species evolved from a single organism? By you're logic, we should have started out with lots of different organisms, and the weaker ones would have gotten weeded out until only the single strongest organism survived, giving it a "monopoly" on life.

    Clearly this is not the case, which suggests that in the natural world competition for resources breeds variety and more competition.
    You have brought up a topic that is quite involved. Let me see if I can brought up a shorter answer. You have several hypotheses, such as "from a single organism", "Clearly this is not the case", "competition for resources breeds variety". All these hypotheses cannot be explained with isolation from each other.

    As much as you start "from a single organism", I can assume with the equal legitimacy that different species evolved from quite a few different organisms. Why and how have they been there? I cannot answer you, if I can, I could have been one of the greatest scientists in the world. In fact, no one can, yet. However, when life is in its lower form, it can change its DNA structure rapidly, so rapid that an environment that would terminate it also needs to evolve rapidly. Otherwise, this newer form will dwell and breed. This is one of the reasons, as well as a proof, the flu virus has different varieties every year.

    Since the new individuals bearing the new variation is not necessary of a uniform collection, to extinguish the entire collection of many varieties, it needs different environmental conditions to provide different hostile "weapons". Unless the hostile environment has all kind of right "weapons" to kill, some of the individuals in the non uniform collection would have chance to stay and breed. Some of those survive may even develop some DNA nature that would command such individuals to consume its own kind to survive. See how the chimpanzee hunt the smaller monkeys for food, although both are primates. All these have planted the root for different species to appear.

    Because of the "transportation" in the non human environment is so slow, two phenomena continuously races between each other in nature: developing new varieties and eliminating varieties. Which phenomenon prevails? It depends. They will arrive at a certain balance under a certain circumstance. I will not explain more, but one of the balance is that human being's over breeding has made many other living beings impossible to continue on earth. Human beings have made themselves the top predator on earth. Now, they have been preparing another fierce competition: consuming (although not directly eating) their own kind, the potential is getting stronger and stronger. The stronger and stronger potential is intensified by two elements: They gang up according to different interests and the highly develop efficient weapons in killing. In the near future, as far as what I can see, Caucasians are a losing species, because they fail to gang up.
    Last edited by crebigsol; 07-27-10 at 02:51 PM.

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    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    But you also have to consider how much of the overhead costs are natural (ie. costs based upon meeting the necessity of actually providing the product/service under "normal" free conditions) vs. artificial (costs for liceses, fees, waivers, etc put in place by an entity separate from just what the market demands).

    Ask yourself this... Are there any monopolies in a black market that are built solely upon an entitiy's market strategy (ie. monopolies not arising from a black market entity's use of force or violence to oust competitors)?
    This is irrelevent. If the average total cost of a firm is continually declining it is a natural monopoly. More entrants would mean that each firm produces less, which means each firm faces a higher average total cost. This makes entrance unattractive. It does not really matter if the government causes this or not. Although, I am not sure how the government can cause a continually declining average cost, since it usually has to do with the nature of the product. Think about things like radio stations, or satalite TV. The initial cost is high, but once you have the infrastructure built it costs very little to add another person.
    Last edited by drz-400; 07-27-10 at 03:21 PM.

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