View Poll Results: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes (Explain)

    12 46.15%
  • No (Explain)

    14 53.85%
  • Other (Explain

    0 0%
Page 6 of 12 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 114

Thread: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

  1. #51
    Educator Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    10-07-10 @ 08:38 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    1,019

    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    Care to elaborate? what makes you think this is the case? Any single historical example would be nice.



    This is irrelevant to this thread...
    Any banking industry... Oil.. etc

    I'm not sure it is irrelevant in fact I think it is perfectly relevant.

  2. #52
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Your saying in the US if you have a lot of medical expenses and don't have coverage it doesn't put people into bankruptcy? I promise you.. you are exaggerating I have a public option and I know it works well.
    Yes it can but that is not the reason the majority of people file bankruptcy after a major medical event.
    It's because they have been out of work and didn't have the money to pay their bills anyway.

    In addition, a "public option" would not decrease costs nor would it lighten the load on our already overloaded ED's and primary care administrators.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Your assumption is they would receive education for free? This is dishonest to me and subjects the poor to educators with ulterior objectives.. such as religion.
    I never said free.
    I said that it's untrue that "the poor" would receive no education if it weren't for the state education system.

    Religion whether you believe it or not, is none of your business.
    Suffice to say that even with a state education system, a great many people still believe in creationism, even if the evidence is flimsy at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Well that may explain the inefficiency of it.. Plenty of centrally planned education systems turning out extremely talented people for less cost then the partially privatised system.
    Partial privatization is about as foolish as total state monopoly.
    I want a total private system.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 07-27-10 at 02:42 AM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #53
    Professor
    other's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VA
    Last Seen
    01-22-14 @ 11:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,473

    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Any banking industry... Oil.. etc
    That's not very specific. Any banking industry, or oil...are already under heavy regulation and interference--and have been for a long time. To demonstrate that a "free market," as you say, leads to monopolistic capitalism, you need to identify an actual instance when this has happened. so...

    1) Identify a society with a free market.
    2) Show how the market developed monopolistic tendencies and eventually true monopolies without any outside interference (free market, right?)

    Since you seem so sure of your hypothesis, this should be relatively easy for you. Feel free to take an example from any time in history...good luck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I'm not sure it is irrelevant in fact I think it is perfectly relevant.
    I was only saying that because the point of this thread was concerning the development of monopolies, not the consequences of them. Don't know what you're trying to prove by inserting the whole fascisim-angle.

  4. #54
    Educator Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    10-07-10 @ 08:38 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    1,019

    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yes it can but that is not the reason the majority of people file bankruptcy after a major medical event.
    It's because they have been out of work and didn't have the money to pay their bills anyway.




    I never said free.
    I said that it's untrue that "the poor" would receive no education if it weren't for the state education system.

    Religion whether you believe it or not, is none of your business.
    Suffice to say that even with a state education system, a great many people still believe in creationism, even if the evidence is flimsy at best.



    Partial privatization is about as foolish as total state monopoly.
    I want a total private system.

    Oh the people who are guaranteed to be out of work because of the nature of the system that wants higher unemployment to keep inflation in check? or the people who do work at near min wage to scrape by on a pay check to pay check basis?

    I certainly view freedom of religion as freedom from religion and so do most libertarians I know of worth their salt.

    I total private system would result in extreme stratification of quality of education with only the wealhty having the best education without some state intervention. This is a terrible idea and irresponsible in my humble opinon

  5. #55
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Anything that is excludable, but has no rival in consumption is a natural monopoly.

    Usually they have a large initial investment cost, but once the infrastructure is in place they cost relatively little to extend to another person (ie low marginal cost). This makes it unprofitable for another firm to enter, and actually reduces economic efficiency if one does. For example a police department. Once they are in place it costs relatively little to protect one more house. TV or pay per view movies are another good example.

  6. #56
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Yes free market monopoly capitalism leads to monopolies. That is what it does.. then after the monopoly develops it makes itself a part of the system which is fascist.
    I don't know what the fascist part is, but a free market will do the opposite of what you suggest. Competitive markets, and monopolistic competition will in the long run tend towards 0 profits because of a constant enter and exit of firms in the market. Monopolies and oligopolies will lose market power because substitutes will emerge or new competition will be found.

  7. #57
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Oh the people who are guaranteed to be out of work because of the nature of the system that wants higher unemployment to keep inflation in check? or the people who do work at near min wage to scrape by on a pay check to pay check basis?
    You purposefully do appeals to poverty, as if that is the natural result.
    It trains people to be fiscally responsible.

    A free approach to medical care allows doctors to practice price discrimination and insurance companies create real, affordable emergency medical care plans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I certainly view freedom of religion as freedom from religion and so do most libertarians I know of worth their salt.
    Anyone and everyone has the right to practice or not practice as they see fit.
    You do not have a choice in how to raise another person's child, unless you plan to fully or partially fund their life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I total private system would result in extreme stratification of quality of education with only the wealhty having the best education without some state intervention. This is a terrible idea and irresponsible in my humble opinon
    That isn't even true.

    Prior to the creation of the first public school system in Massachusetts.
    The state had a literacy rate of 98%.

    You're just making unfounded assumptions.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #58
    Educator Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    10-07-10 @ 08:38 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    1,019

    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    That's not very specific. Any banking industry, or oil...are already under heavy regulation and interference--and have been for a long time. To demonstrate that a "free market," as you say, leads to monopolistic capitalism, you need to identify an actual instance when this has happened. so...

    1) Identify a society with a free market.
    2) Show how the market developed monopolistic tendencies and eventually true monopolies without any outside interference (free market, right?)

    Since you seem so sure of your hypothesis, this should be relatively easy for you. Feel free to take an example from any time in history...good luck!



    I was only saying that because the point of this thread was concerning the development of monopolies, not the consequences of them. Don't know what you're trying to prove by inserting the whole fascisim-angle.
    Look the market develops on its own or not.. ether way it is monopolistic. If the state favours a particular business then it gain an advantage but that doesn't mean dispite that political gain that the private gain wasn't already present.. In fact it is more likely it already had an edge. I am not arguing for extreme anti market sentiment.. I am arguing for corporate accountability and a separation of state/private affairs.

    Microsoft is a perfect example .. I don't need to elaborate on that much.

    Fascism is partially the integration of a societies corporations with government. Now the privatisation of your system will require certain rolls to be filled by private for profit companies which is the real drive behind the libertarian movement. To dismantle all governmental affairs and privatise them in one way or another to reduce the size of the government in particularly fiscal matters... all under the guise of individualism and liberty.
    Last edited by Gabriel; 07-27-10 at 03:01 AM.

  9. #59
    Professor
    other's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VA
    Last Seen
    01-22-14 @ 11:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,473

    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Anything that is excludable, but has no rival in consumption is a natural monopoly.

    Usually they have a large initial investment cost, but once the infrastructure is in place they cost relatively little to extend to another person (ie low marginal cost). This makes it unprofitable for another firm to enter, and actually reduces economic efficiency if one does. For example a police department. Once they are in place it costs relatively little to protect one more house. TV or pay per view movies are another good example.
    But you also have to consider how much of the overhead costs are natural (ie. costs based upon meeting the necessity of actually providing the product/service under "normal" free conditions) vs. artificial (costs for liceses, fees, waivers, etc put in place by an entity separate from just what the market demands).

    Ask yourself this... Are there any monopolies in a black market that are built solely upon an entitiy's market strategy (ie. monopolies not arising from a black market entity's use of force or violence to oust competitors)?

  10. #60
    Professor
    other's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VA
    Last Seen
    01-22-14 @ 11:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,473

    Re: Do you believe in natural monopolies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Look the market develops on its own or not.. ether way it is monopolistic. If the state favours a particular business then it gain an advantage but that doesn't mean dispite that political gain that the private gain wasn't already present.. In fact it is more likely it already had an edge. I am not arguing for extreme anti market sentiment.. I am arguing for corporate accountability and a separation of state/private affairs.

    Microsoft is a perfect example .. I don't need to elaborate on that much.
    That's my point. You cannot say that free markets lead to monopolies without introducing outside pressure...the state or some other means. Private gain alone does not create a monopoly. Force does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Fascism is partially the integration of a societies corporations with government.
    Most collectivist forms of government do the same. fascism is not unique in this. In fact, fascism is much more of a culturally/nationally driven system than an economic one...economically, fascists usually subscribe to one form of socialism or another to try to create harmony/control over what they believe would otherwise be disparate market forces within a society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Now the privatisation of your system will require certain rolls to be filled by private for profit companies which is the real drive behind the libertarian movement. To dismantle all governmental affairs and privatise them in one way or another to reduce the size of the government in particularly fiscal matters... all under the guise of individualism and liberty.
    Libertarians are not for the dismantling of all government affairs. Only some. Again, this is off the topic of monopolies.

Page 6 of 12 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •