View Poll Results: Should Government Employees Be Unionized?

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Thread: Should Government Employees Be Unionized?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should Government Employees Be Unionized?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I counter with the fact that military servicemembers have their rights abridged when they work for the government. There is no reason why other government positions cannot do the same.
    Expound.

    I say military service is different. First off, the Army can't be allowed to go on strike. Period. Secondly, it's non union and everyone who enlists either knows this ahead of time or is an idiot.

    Then again, no reason why a bunch of clerks at the Patent and Trademark Office can't form their own goonion. it should just be made plain that if they do decide to strike, they're jobs aren't terribly important or terribly hard to teach others, so they may not have a job when they decide to come back, and in the mean time, since Congress sets the wage scales, their best bet is to lobby congress as any voter can, and keep working.

    There's always private industry. If some clerk wants better pay or whatever, he can always look elsewhere for a job. If he finds what he wants, he moves on, otherwise, he's already being paid the most that he's worth.

    There's absolutely no reason the civil service should be treated as some shrine. It's a damn job, and it shouldn't treated any differently than any other.

  2. #12
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    Re: Should Government Employees Be Unionized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Expound.

    I say military service is different. First off, the Army can't be allowed to go on strike. Period. Secondly, it's non union and everyone who enlists either knows this ahead of time or is an idiot.

    Then again, no reason why a bunch of clerks at the Patent and Trademark Office can't form their own goonion. it should just be made plain that if they do decide to strike, they're jobs aren't terribly important or terribly hard to teach others, so they may not have a job when they decide to come back, and in the mean time, since Congress sets the wage scales, their best bet is to lobby congress as any voter can, and keep working.

    There's always private industry. If some clerk wants better pay or whatever, he can always look elsewhere for a job. If he finds what he wants, he moves on, otherwise, he's already being paid the most that he's worth.

    There's absolutely no reason the civil service should be treated as some shrine. It's a damn job, and it shouldn't treated any differently than any other.
    No, the military is no different then the Patent and Trademark office. Both serve a vital role in the government and they should not be allowed to form a union. Everyone that is employed by the government must forfeit their right to join a union since they are supposed to be serving the people not forcing the people to serve them in their unreasonable demands.

  3. #13
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    Re: Should Government Employees Be Unionized?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I counter with the fact that military servicemembers have their rights abridged when they work for the government. There is no reason why other government positions cannot do the same.

    The policemen,firefighters, air traffic controllers, teachers or any other tax payer funded employees do not require the same discipline and order as the military. It would be disastrous to allow those in the military the same constitutional rights as other Americans. They would be mouthing off to everybody in their chain of command(I know I wanted to tell a NCO and a commissioned officer to go **** himself many times), they would be going on strike to avoid field training, go on strike to avoid going to war,go on strike to avoid KP,Go on strike to avoid police call, go on strike to avoid staff duty,go on strike to avoid guard duty, go on strike to avoid company piss tests, go on strike to not have to not have to return stuff in exactly immaculate or better condition(some people in CIF can be pretty anal when it comes to gear being returned),go on strike because the food in the chow hall sucks ass, go on strike because field chow taste worse than the MREs or any other reasons soldiers would use a strike,freedom of speech or any other reason for. The thing about teachers, policemen, firefighters, garbageman and other civilian tax payer funded employees is that there is no shortage of people to take those jobs.

    Someone in the military is not easily fired. Usually disciplinary problems will result in article 15s, loss of pay, reduction in rank, extra duty and any other punishments.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 07-25-10 at 08:55 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Should Government Employees Be Unionized?

    government unions like the postal workers or the scummy AFSCME do not guarantee good work or teach a trade (unlike real unions like the carpenters, IBEW or pipefitters). Government unions are nothing more than collective bargaining units that drive up the taxpayers' costs and protect lousy workers.



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    Re: Should Government Employees Be Unionized?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    No, the military is no different then the Patent and Trademark office. Both serve a vital role in the government and they should not be allowed to form a union. Everyone that is employed by the government must forfeit their right to join a union since they are supposed to be serving the people not forcing the people to serve them in their unreasonable demands.
    Wrongo.

    The defense of the nation is not something that can be allowed to rest on the whim of shop stewards, it's the top national priority assigned to the Congress and the President.

    The issuance of patents and trademarks is something assigned to Congress much later in the Constitution, and it's not anything that can't wait a while for striking non-workers to be replaced with new employees.

    As I said, people can form unions, if they're not in the military, and do anything they damn well please, so long as they 're perfectly aware that the job their striking from doesn't belong to them and may be permanently assigned to the next person willing to do it.

    The military can't unionize because they're under contract to obey orders from their superior. They always have the option to not re-enlist when their contract expires, individually.

  6. #16
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    Re: Should Government Employees Be Unionized?

    I say unionize them and allow the government to get a taste of its own medicine.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  7. #17
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    Re: Should Government Employees Be Unionized?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I say unionize them and allow the government to get a taste of its own medicine.
    why do you think the Postal Service leaked about 3 billion last year?



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    Re: Should Government Employees Be Unionized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Wrongo.

    The defense of the nation is not something that can be allowed to rest on the whim of shop stewards, it's the top national priority assigned to the Congress and the President.

    The issuance of patents and trademarks is something assigned to Congress much later in the Constitution, and it's not anything that can't wait a while for striking non-workers to be replaced with new employees.

    As I said, people can form unions, if they're not in the military, and do anything they damn well please, so long as they 're perfectly aware that the job their striking from doesn't belong to them and may be permanently assigned to the next person willing to do it.

    The military can't unionize because they're under contract to obey orders from their superior. They always have the option to not re-enlist when their contract expires, individually.
    You might want to check the Constitution then because Patents and Trademarks are listed as Clause VIII while the military is Clauses XII and XIII in Article I Section VIII.

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    Re: Should Government Employees Be Unionized?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    You might want to check the Constitution then because Patents and Trademarks are listed as Clause VIII while the military is Clauses XII and XIII in Article I Section VIII.
    Hmmm....the Preamble says "Provide for the Common Defense".

    That seems to come before any clause in any subsequent article.

    "Securing Patents"....that's not in the Preamble, is it?

  10. #20
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    Re: Should Government Employees Be Unionized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Hmmm....the Preamble says "Provide for the Common Defense".

    That seems to come before any clause in any subsequent article.

    "Securing Patents"....that's not in the Preamble, is it?
    Preamble doesn't have the force of law. Did you want try again? If you cite Article I Section VIII Clause I, I will refute it by saying that it's a statement of intent and not a grant of power. Patents and Trademarks will still come before defense.

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