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When did America start its downward spiral towards socialism/fascism?

When did America start its downward spiral towards socialism/fascism


  • Total voters
    55
Yeah, socialism and fascism, the exact same thing.

How can anyone take these kinds of polls seriously?

Here's a clue, since you need one: There are two different words because they mean two different things. And, in fact, the two different things cannot co-exist.

I know, a difficult concept for some here. Those of us with a dictionary -- or an 8th grade education in government -- see things a bit differently.

technically and in the purest sense socialism and fascism are not the same. However, national socialism-a well known form of fascism and stalinist socialism basically meant the same thing for millions of people who were killed under both systems

both systems are anti individual and subjugates individual freedom to state authority.

both are diseases we should eradicate when possible
 
technically and in the purest sense socialism and fascism are not the same. However, national socialism-a well known form of fascism and stalinist socialism basically meant the same thing for millions of people who were killed under both systems

Just because they called themselves that doesn't mean they were, any more than China is a true communist country.
 
Just because they called themselves that doesn't mean they were, any more than China is a true communist country.

there is no such thing as a pure communist country or a pure capitalist country etc
 
not at all, I do find it amusing that I have never been on a board discussing Canadian politics because, frankly, it doesn't matter nor does it affect me.

This is relevant to the thread how?
 
This is relevant to the thread how?

I agree, the comments of a non citizen are not particularly relevant to a thread about the United States of America.
 
FDR is a good answer, but it started before that in the early 1900's. Maybe even late-1800's.
 
there is no such thing as a pure communist country or a pure capitalist country etc

I agree.

My point, however, is that just because the Nazis called themselves "socialists" doesn't mean they were.

Those guys lied a lot, you know.
 
Haha - FDR SUCKS! apparently . . . yet everyone loved him so damn much back then.

Odd - hunh?
 
FDR is a good answer, but it started before that in the early 1900's. Maybe even late-1800's.

yeah I agree

its like a boil-the bacteria enters the skin but you really notice it when that big angry blob of pus becomes visible on your hide and it hurts like an MF. FDR was that big head of pus. But the infection that caused it was percolating before 1933
 
I agree.

My point, however, is that just because the Nazis called themselves "socialists" doesn't mean they were.

Those guys lied a lot, you know.

true-but any form of collectivist state, if unchecked, ends up having high body counts and disdain for individuals
 
true-but any form of collectivist state, if unchecked, ends up having high body counts and disdain for individuals

I could easily argue that, looking at America during the start of the industrial revolution, that the same thing applies to capitalism. We had people dying from pollution, child labor, deaths from unsafe working conditions -- and a disdain for individuals who didn't have money.

That's why the socialist movement got started after all, because of the abuses of unchecked capitalism. That's why Marx and Engels wrote their books, and why the stupid idea of communism attracted many people -- "How could it possibly be worse than this?", they'd ask.

The fact is that some of us don't think moving towards some socialism is a "downward spiral" especially since every advanced civilized nation has gone in that direction for the last 100 years. We can debate over how much we should have, but except for the most extreme (which I assume probably includes you, TurtleDude) very few people want to give up their schools and libraries and social security and health care and regulations that keep us from being the Dickens-like world we had under uncontrolled capitalism.
 
When did it start? Probably around the time of FDR, maybe a little before with welfare, etc. When did it really get rolling? During the 60s when America took an annoying turn for the liberal.

Arrow > > > > bullseye!

I was born in the 50's and watched the 60's as the flowerchildren chanted, got high, and announced with furious passion that all you need is love. They just didn't understand that their concept of love was shallow, expensive, and really didn't mean anything.;)
 
yeah I agree

its like a boil-the bacteria enters the skin but you really notice it when that big angry blob of pus becomes visible on your hide and it hurts like an MF. FDR was that big head of pus. But the infection that caused it was percolating before 1933


TMI....!!! :wow:



.
 
Haha - FDR SUCKS! apparently . . . yet everyone loved him so damn much back then.

Odd - hunh?

they didn't see what would happen in 70 years when dependency and government increases started by him really started causing problems
 
I could easily argue that, looking at America during the start of the industrial revolution, that the same thing applies to capitalism. We had people dying from pollution, child labor, deaths from unsafe working conditions -- and a disdain for individuals who didn't have money.

That's why the socialist movement got started after all, because of the abuses of unchecked capitalism. That's why Marx and Engels wrote their books, and why the stupid idea of communism attracted many people -- "How could it possibly be worse than this?", they'd ask.

The fact is that some of us don't think moving towards some socialism is a "downward spiral" especially since every advanced civilized nation has gone in that direction for the last 100 years. We can debate over how much we should have, but except for the most extreme (which I assume probably includes you, TurtleDude) very few people want to give up their schools and libraries and social security and health care and regulations that keep us from being the Dickens-like world we had under uncontrolled capitalism.

socialism was started by those who wanted to be rich but didn't have the creativity or the ambition to get rich by creating things of value.
 
TMI....!!! :wow:



.

politics is like sausage-if you like the results don't look too closely at its manufacture.
 
socialism was started by those who wanted to be rich but didn't have the creativity or the ambition to get rich by creating things of value.

Yeah, like the Bedazzler and the Flowbee.
And of course, the pièce de résistance: the ShamWOW!
 
Yeah, like the Bedazzler and the Flowbee.
And of course, the pièce de résistance: the ShamWOW!

was this one of those "I just had to say something but really couldn't think of anything intelligent to say" moments?
 
I agree, the comments of a non citizen are not particularly relevant to a thread about the United States of America.

So you've never had an opinion about things going on in Mexico?

Israel?

Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea?

China?

France? England? Sweden?

You live in Ohio. Have you ever had an opinion on a state law or issue in California? Massachusetts? New York? Nevada?

People can be affected by things that occur outside of the immediate vicinity they live in. A state law in California can have a ripple effect that affects Ohio, similarly the United States passing a law or having a stance on an issue can have a ripple effect that touches Canada, England, etc.

Its an incredibly ignorant statement to say that Canadian policy doesn't affect you. Border and immigration policy on their end can directly affect the United States. Their laws regarding Universal Health Care were oft referenced and at times used as a baseline for instituting and arguing for such in the United States. They've been long standing allies in the War on Terror meaning their policies and actions on that will affect the men and women of our military directly. Just because you ignorantly believe that people should be isolated to having opinions about a singular country that they live and that one country has no affect on the other doesn't mean other people must lower themselves to such an ignorant opinion as well.
 
I agree.

My point, however, is that just because the Nazis called themselves "socialists" doesn't mean they were.

Those guys lied a lot, you know.

Actually, the Nazi Party was socialist in the sense that the government controlled the means of production.
 
I agree.

My point, however, is that just because the Nazis called themselves "socialists" doesn't mean they were.

Those guys lied a lot, you know.

More importantly, just because socialists want to say National Socialism wasn't socialism doesn't mean it wasn't.

Since National Socialism was a form of socialism, it's the socialists that are lying, not the Nazis.


Best way to avoid this conundrum is to reject all forms of socialism and become a capitalist and a libertarian.
 
More importantly, just because socialists want to say National Socialism wasn't socialism doesn't mean it wasn't.

Since National Socialism was a form of socialism, it's the socialists that are lying, not the Nazis.

Best way to avoid this conundrum is to reject all forms of socialism and become a capitalist and a libertarian.

Lol. Sorry. I laughed. That is ridiculous.
 
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