View Poll Results: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment removing the estate tax have failed?

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Thread: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

  1. #71
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I was suggesting the following

    your father has a painting-he bought it for 20K. If he were to sell it before he dies for 100K he pays capital gains on the 80 grand increase. Now some claim that if there is no estate tax, and you were to receive that painting and you were later to sell it for 100K you wouldn't have to pay any tax. I was suggesting that if you sell something the basis should be the original cost as if the death never would have happened.

    now I oppose all taxes on income or wealth for the reasons I have stated over 100 times. Progressive income taxes or estate taxes are used by the politicians who represent income redistributionists (as oppose to wealth creators or wealth owners) to gain power by promising people like obvious child more and more government handouts that he won't have to pay. A politician who told every person on the dole that they will have to face increased taxes for their increased benefits would never win their votes.

    someone who tells obvious child that his entitlements will only be paid for by "the rich" getting hit with more and more taxes will earn his vote.

    and in the long run, the whole system collapses when those pandering to the tax consumers run out of other peoples' money needed to buy the votes of their followers.
    I suggest the following:

    If there's no estate tax, there's no reason the government should have to know what the estate contains, outside of registered transferrables such as stocks, bonds, and titled property.

    Thus, if a painting is handed down, and the heir sells it for a mega buck or two, there's no reason the government has to be bothered about it. The government didn't do anything to create the art, the government didn't have an interest in the art before, the government didn't take any risk in the ownership of the art, and the government didn't have any emotional attachment to it. Thus, if an heir sells an inheritance as a private party, the government gets nothing, because it's none of the government's business in the first place.


    The fact that a valuable property exists is not sufficient reason for the government to steal part of it.

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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I just thought of something... the colonies went to war with one of the reasons being taxation without representation. Since the property belongs to a dead person wouldn't that be taxation without representation?
    The property doesn't belong to a dead person.

    The property belongs to his heirs the moment he dies. The issues involving inheritance are what property goes to which heirs, and what outstanding debt existed for the deceased when he died that has to be paid before the estate is settled?

    Ain't no reason any government agency should be lining up with their guns and hands out demanding a cut of something they did nothing to help earn.

  3. #73
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Come again?

    So if Harry buys a stock at $5 with after tax dollars and dies when it's at $15, that gain of $10 has already been taxed?

    If so, when was that gain ever taxed?
    Capital gains should never be taxed.

  4. #74
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    I suggest the following:

    If there's no estate tax, there's no reason the government should have to know what the estate contains, outside of registered transferrables such as stocks, bonds, and titled property.

    Thus, if a painting is handed down, and the heir sells it for a mega buck or two, there's no reason the government has to be bothered about it. The government didn't do anything to create the art, the government didn't have an interest in the art before, the government didn't take any risk in the ownership of the art, and the government didn't have any emotional attachment to it. Thus, if an heir sells an inheritance as a private party, the government gets nothing, because it's none of the government's business in the first place.


    The fact that a valuable property exists is not sufficient reason for the government to steal part of it.
    I like that thinking-I agree completely



  5. #75
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Capital gains should never be taxed.
    Because...

    Okay, so if the stock price jumps because of a government bailout, then those gains shouldn't be taxed?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  6. #76
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Okay, why should untaxed gains in estates be free from taxation but all other gains be taxed?

    Fundmentally, what is different from a stock in an estate with $10 in untaxed gain from a stock in a regular portfolio with an untaxed $10 gain? Why should the untaxed gain on the estate tax escape taxation but the non-estate stock gain get taxed?

    Turtledude refused to answer this. Maybe you can take a try on it?

    Both you and him seem to think that estates are only made up of post tax items. This suggests large amounts of ignorance regarding the estate tax.
    Still the bottom line is double taxation, if you paid taxes on the items you own regardless of it's value then or in the future no taxes are due. Like the government your complicating things that need not be complicated, so I ask where in the constitution does it say that citizens have the right to be double taxed. That said estate tax doesn't make a big difference in the federal or even state budget, therefor it appears to me that estate taxto is a penalizing tax for success or ability to save.

  7. #77
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Still the bottom line is double taxation
    How?

    if you paid taxes on the items you own regardless of it's value then or in the future no taxes are due.
    Say what? how is that double taxation? Buying an asset which then appreciates with no taxation and then being taxed on the gain is NOT double taxation.

    Double taxation would be corporations taxed on income, distributing that to shareholders in dividends which are then taxed. That same income is double taxed. What you described is not double taxation.

    It appears both you and turtle really have no idea what either of you are talking about.

    Like the government your complicating things that need not be complicated, so I ask where in the constitution does it say that citizens have the right to be double taxed. That said estate tax doesn't make a big difference in the federal or even state budget, therefor it appears to me that estate taxto is a penalizing tax for success or ability to save.
    And you fail to answer the question as well. So here it is again:

    Fundmentally, what is different from a stock in an estate with $10 in untaxed gain from a stock in a regular portfolio with an untaxed $10 gain? Why should the untaxed gain on the estate tax escape taxation but the non-estate stock gain get taxed?

    What makes you think you can talk about the estate tax when you don't understand it?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Well, thanks for proving my various points.

    You don't understand the estate tax.
    You don't understand the basis of assets in the estate tax.
    You can't read properly.

    And yes, assets in an estate receive a stepped up basis to FMV. You are wrong on this. 100%.
    Seems to be that you don't understand morality, and since turtledude is making a moral argument your arrogance is preventing you from making the effort to understand the immorality of confiscatory taxation.

    It's immoral to steal the coins from the dead man's eyes.

    Period.

    Hence your arguments about how turtledude doesn't understand the precise mechanisms of the process of theft are irrelevant. He's not discussing how one method of theft would be better than some other.

    He's arguing it's wrong to steal.

  9. #79
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Still the bottom line is double taxation, if you paid taxes on the items you own regardless of it's value then or in the future no taxes are due. Like the government your complicating things that need not be complicated, so I ask where in the constitution does it say that citizens have the right to be double taxed. That said estate tax doesn't make a big difference in the federal or even state budget, therefor it appears to me that estate taxto is a penalizing tax for success or ability to save.
    the estate tax was dreamed up back in the days when there was almost no-if any-progressive income tax. THe thought was the rich paid almost nothing in taxes and would accumulate too much wealth. Of course this nonsense never would have passed if it were proposed in the days when the top marginal rates were in the confiscatory range.

    that it only targets a few (though many more estates have to spend alot of money and time trying to avoid it) estates is because its a ploy by the dems to buy the votes of those who are envious of the rich. If the feds really needed more money why don't they tax more estates? because they would get their asses thrown out of DC.



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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    He's arguing it's wrong to steal.
    And his definition of stealing is insane. Hence why I reject the premise.

    The notion that you people hold, taxation = theft is beyond reasonable understanding.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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