View Poll Results: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment removing the estate tax have failed?

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    11 36.67%
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Thread: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    So, anyone care to explain what TurtleDude and obvious Child are discussing?

    I can't seem to figure it out.
    its simple

    I oppose the government taxing estates

    OC is a big fan of the government taking more and more wealth from those who already were being taxed at the top rate.

    I oppose taxes on income etc. If there is to be a tax on income it should be at the same rate so politicians cannot buy the votes of people like OC by promising them that everything they want will be paid by "the rich" being taxed at higher and higher rates.



  2. #62
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    So, anyone care to explain what TurtleDude and obvious Child are discussing?

    I can't seem to figure it out.
    I pointed out in post #32 how Turtledude's understanding of the estate tax was horribly flawed, namely how assets receive stepped up basis. Turtle believes (wrongly) that assets do not receive stepped up basis are taxed when the inheritor sells the asset. I then pointed out how that leads to very perverse incentives meant to bypass the tax code by abusing the 501(c) section of the tax code.

    He then spent a couple posts saying all my argument was, was an opinion and as I quote "an ASSumption." I then cited the actual tax code and he's spent the rest couple of posts lying about what he said. I don't expect him to admit he's wrong. Hell, I gave up expecting him to even reply with relevant comments.

    As for Turtledude's warped version of reality, merely reading the posts shows he is once again, lying.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 07-31-10 at 11:58 PM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #63
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I pointed out in post #32 how Turtledude's understanding of the estate tax was horribly flawed, namely how assets receive stepped up basis. Turtle believes (wrongly) that assets do not receive stepped up basis are taxed when the inheritor sells the asset. I then pointed out how that leads to very perverse incentives meant to bypass the tax code by abusing the 501(c) section of the tax code.

    He then spent a couple posts saying all my argument was, was an opinion and as I quote "an ASSumption." I then cited the actual tax code and he's spent the rest couple of posts lying about what he said. I don't expect him to admit he's wrong. Hell, I gave up expecting him to even reply with relevant comments.

    As for Turtledude's warped version of reality, merely reading the posts shows he is once again, lying.
    wrong again

    I mentioned what I thought the law should be

    you wrongly assumed that I was confusing what is with what should be.

    and you have lied about me constantly



  4. #64
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I pointed out in post #32 how Turtledude's understanding of the estate tax was horribly flawed, namely how assets receive stepped up basis. Turtle believes (wrongly) that assets do not receive stepped up basis are taxed when the inheritor sells the asset. I then pointed out how that leads to very perverse incentives meant to bypass the tax code by abusing the 501(c) section of the tax code.

    He then spent a couple posts saying all my argument was, was an opinion and as I quote "an ASSumption." I then cited the actual tax code and he's spent the rest couple of posts lying about what he said. I don't expect him to admit he's wrong. Hell, I gave up expecting him to even reply with relevant comments.

    As for Turtledude's warped version of reality, merely reading the posts shows he is once again, lying.
    Bottom line is there shouldn't be a estate tax period, for anyone on any income level. When one is earning their way through life they are already being taxed from their income and purchases, so what constitutional right does the government have to tax again what one has already paid taxes on.

  5. #65
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    its simple

    I oppose the government taxing estates

    OC is a big fan of the government taking more and more wealth from those who already were being taxed at the top rate.

    I oppose taxes on income etc. If there is to be a tax on income it should be at the same rate so politicians cannot buy the votes of people like OC by promising them that everything they want will be paid by "the rich" being taxed at higher and higher rates.
    Ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I pointed out in post #32 how Turtledude's understanding of the estate tax was horribly flawed, namely how assets receive stepped up basis. Turtle believes (wrongly) that assets do not receive stepped up basis are taxed when the inheritor sells the asset. I then pointed out how that leads to very perverse incentives meant to bypass the tax code by abusing the 501(c) section of the tax code.

    He then spent a couple posts saying all my argument was, was an opinion and as I quote "an ASSumption." I then cited the actual tax code and he's spent the rest couple of posts lying about what he said. I don't expect him to admit he's wrong. Hell, I gave up expecting him to even reply with relevant comments.

    As for Turtledude's warped version of reality, merely reading the posts shows he is once again, lying.
    So, basically, you disagree with TD's description of how a portion of the estate tax's function(s) work, at some point in past posts (I apparently missed it).

    And he has yet to say he was incorrect in that description?

    Or provide a counterpoint if he thinks that he is correct?

    It appears to me that he simply doesn't care, as despite you being correct or incorrect, he would still oppose the estate tax.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  6. #66
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    wrong again

    I mentioned what I thought the law should be
    No you didn't.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1058884606

    I asked when the gain was ever taxed and you said when the son sells it at the basis of his father. Except that is NOT how it works.

    you wrongly assumed that I was confusing what is with what should be.

    and you have lied about me constantly
    Post #26 suggests otherwise.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  7. #67
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Ok.

    So, basically, you disagree with TD's description of how a portion of the estate tax's function(s) work, at some point in past posts (I apparently missed it).
    Technically, the tax code itself as demonstrated in my posts disagrees with TD's description of how the estate tax works.

    And he has yet to say he was incorrect in that description?
    Pretty much. Despite me asking him exactly that.

    Or provide a counterpoint if he thinks that he is correct?
    All I've gotten is partisan vomit about why liberals are bad and why estate tax is evil. As TD has demonstrated an sizable amount of ignorance as to how the estate tax works, why should we listen to anything he says about it? If you cannot even understand the most basic aspect of the estate tax, saying it's evil doesn't carry much weight.

    It appears to me that he simply doesn't care, as despite you being correct or incorrect, he would still oppose the estate tax.
    That much is absolutely certain.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  8. #68
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltabtry View Post
    Bottom line is there shouldn't be a estate tax period, for anyone on any income level. When one is earning their way through life they are already being taxed from their income and purchases, so what constitutional right does the government have to tax again what one has already paid taxes on.
    Okay, why should untaxed gains in estates be free from taxation but all other gains be taxed?

    Fundmentally, what is different from a stock in an estate with $10 in untaxed gain from a stock in a regular portfolio with an untaxed $10 gain? Why should the untaxed gain on the estate tax escape taxation but the non-estate stock gain get taxed?

    Turtledude refused to answer this. Maybe you can take a try on it?

    Both you and him seem to think that estates are only made up of post tax items. This suggests large amounts of ignorance regarding the estate tax.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #69
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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Ok.

    So, basically, you disagree with TD's description of how a portion of the estate tax's function(s) work, at some point in past posts (I apparently missed it).

    And he has yet to say he was incorrect in that description?

    Or provide a counterpoint if he thinks that he is correct?

    It appears to me that he simply doesn't care, as despite you being correct or incorrect, he would still oppose the estate tax.
    I was suggesting the following

    your father has a painting-he bought it for 20K. If he were to sell it before he dies for 100K he pays capital gains on the 80 grand increase. Now some claim that if there is no estate tax, and you were to receive that painting and you were later to sell it for 100K you wouldn't have to pay any tax. I was suggesting that if you sell something the basis should be the original cost as if the death never would have happened.

    now I oppose all taxes on income or wealth for the reasons I have stated over 100 times. Progressive income taxes or estate taxes are used by the politicians who represent income redistributionists (as oppose to wealth creators or wealth owners) to gain power by promising people like obvious child more and more government handouts that he won't have to pay. A politician who told every person on the dole that they will have to face increased taxes for their increased benefits would never win their votes.

    someone who tells obvious child that his entitlements will only be paid for by "the rich" getting hit with more and more taxes will earn his vote.

    and in the long run, the whole system collapses when those pandering to the tax consumers run out of other peoples' money needed to buy the votes of their followers.



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    Re: Should Jim DeMints proposed amendment, removing the estate tax have failed?

    Anything the eliminates the grave-robbing evil of the estate tax is a good thing.

    Why shouldn't something that helps the economy be piggy-backed on something as wasteful as more unemployment handouts that do nothing for the economy?

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