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Thread: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

  1. #81
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I really hate the left-right spectrum, but if I had to choose for America's current political climate, probably the right. Arguments over the overall size of government take up a much bigger place than social issues in politics today.
    I think of politics as a North/South rather than Right/Left. North being Libertarian, South being Authoritarian. I don't really care whether the nation is swinging right or left, so long as they are moving North. Both Democrats and Republicans love Government, it would seem. Republicans think that Corporations should run the Government and Democrats think the Government should run the Corporations. Both of these options are terrible.
    There is nothing more dangerous to the liberty of Man than a Government or a Religion seizing upon the strings of an overdeveloped herd instinct amongst the people.

  2. #82
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    There's a one-line sentence often used to sum up core libertarian philosophy, and it goes something like this:


    The chief (or only) concern of government is to prevent or punish, the initiation of force or fraud against an innocent victim.

    Libertarianism is a spectrum, and there are many who would add some additional points to that, but that is the fundamental principle. One can use force in self-defense. One cannot initiate force or fraud legitimately. Meaning the government's purpose is to prevent or punish anyone for initiating force or fraud upon you when you were doing them no harm, whether that initiator was an individual citizen, a group of citizens, an employer or client, a corporation or union, a crime syndicate or a foreign nation's army attempting to invade.

    It is assumed that the government has NO DUTY to prevent you from SELF-INFLICTED harm, done either through deliberate means (suicide, drugs), ignorance or poor judgement, unless the harm you suffered was through another's use of fraud (ie they told you this drug was safe and it isn't).

    Help any?

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  3. #83
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    They are caricatures. Yes. Sad. I know.


    Sadly Libertarians are like forum posters.
    They all fit into a nice formula which is aware of all the possibilities. For every Squirt, there is a Missionary, for every Atlas there is an Android. For every Ethereal there is a donsutherland1. This is not necessarily a bad thing. But after a while you start realizing that these people are nothing more that caricatures. Libertarian seems to be the flavor of the moment and all the cool kids want to try it.
    And for every Redress or Zyphlin there's a Joe Steel or Partisan. Every ideology is like that. There are idiots and geniuses in every single political movement. The fact is, we "teenagers" as you call us are really no different than anyone else, except that we'd like to pay a little less taxes and have a few less excuses for the cops to come banging down our doors.
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Burning Giraffe View Post
    I think of politics as a North/South rather than Right/Left. North being Libertarian, South being Authoritarian. I don't really care whether the nation is swinging right or left, so long as they are moving North. Both Democrats and Republicans love Government, it would seem. Republicans think that Corporations should run the Government and Democrats think the Government should run the Corporations. Both of these options are terrible.
    Both parties are largely the same. I meant average people, like forum posters.
    "Doubleplusungood"

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  5. #85
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    And for every Redress or Zyphlin there's a Joe Steel or Partisan. Every ideology is like that. There are idiots and geniuses in every single political movement. The fact is, we "teenagers" as you call us are really no different than anyone else, except that we'd like to pay a little less taxes and have a few less excuses for the cops to come banging down our doors.
    Hey hey hey, what is this? A rational argument! You know the irrational libertarian haters on this thread can't comprehend rational arguments...or at the very least seem willing to completely ignore them. You'll make no headway against the usual suspects, they just want to poke fun and try to make themselves feel better by picking on other people. If that's what they have to do to feel good about them, well it's pretty sad and I feel sorry for them; but it's what it is.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    And for every Redress or Zyphlin there's a Joe Steel or Partisan. Every ideology is like that. There are idiots and geniuses in every single political movement. The fact is, we "teenagers" as you call us are really no different than anyone else, except that we'd like to pay a little less taxes and have a few less excuses for the cops to come banging down our doors.
    Fiscally libertarianism is on empty. Socially they have been complacent with the republican party. Libertarian fiscal policy is dead in the water and you can thank george bush..

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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Obviously the right.

    Socialism is the epitome of collectivist evil.

    The views on the right include:

    Personal responsibility. The Left is allergic to this notion.

    Self-reliance. The Left views the self as the prefix to -ish.

    Living babies. The Left views dead babies as a profit center and experimental biological matter.

    Charity. The Left construes government confiscation of private wealth a form of charity.

  8. #88
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Fiscally libertarianism is on empty. Socially they have been complacent with the republican party. Libertarian fiscal policy is dead in the water and you can thank george bush..
    Hmmm....so you're saying the libertarian position of Constitutionally controlled spending and taxes balanced to fit the expenditures under the Constitution is dead because a socialist president who couldn't pass up the chane to sign bills advancing unconstitutional and excessive spending?

    That make a lot of sense to you?

    I would say the Tea Party demands for less spending, smaller government, and less taxes belies your claim that "libertarian" fiscal policy is dead in the water.

    What do you call it when the socialists with huge majorities in both Houses of Congress have to resort to questionable parliamentarian gimmicks, bribed votes, and turn-coat RINO's to pass their agenda against the express will of a majority of the population of the country?

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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You'll make no headway against the usual suspects, they just want to poke fun and try to make themselves feel better by picking on other people. If that's what they have to do to feel good about them, well it's pretty sad and I feel sorry for them; but it's what it is.
    No.

    They actually believe the logically flawed arguments they present irrefutable. They believe this so thoroughly that they don't waste any effort actually thinking about the refutations that smash their positions to moondust.

  10. #90
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No.

    They actually believe the logically flawed arguments they present irrefutable. They believe this so thoroughly that they don't waste any effort actually thinking about the refutations that smash their positions to moondust.
    It's particularly annoying when people do this in the personal sphere. When people just decide they're going to hate a group and then use every opportunity to go against them and make snide comments. Like the "Example A", "Example B" dumbass crap. What that's really an example of is the LaTex anti-libertarian. And if people have had any interaction with hardcore LaTex users, you'll know what that means. Haughty, stuck up jerks who think they're better than everyone else, look down their nose at everyone, and think they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. Top hat and monocle wearing fufu folk.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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