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Thread: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

  1. #11
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I would like to pose a question in regards to socially liberal libertarians. Are those views held because the individual believes the government shouldn't legislate morals (gay marriage, prostitution, abortions, etc). Or are they held because libertarians believe these things are morally correct and assert that the government should recognize them as so and extend legality/benefits to such things? If the first is true, would that be considered a left of the spectrum opinion? Or more of a "small government" right end of the spectrum opinion?
    I don't take drugs, curse loudly in public, or visit hookers. The point of Libertarianism is that even if you disagree with someone, they still own themselves and have the right to do as they please unless it harms others.
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    Yes, I'm a libertarian myself and fully aware that they are fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I suppose a better way to phrase my question would be this: which is more important to you; a minimal welfare state, low taxes, the free market, etc; or nonaggressive foreign policy, being pro-gay marriage, and so on?
    I answered your question. I added the link, because I thought it added some interesting viewpoints that aren't my own.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I don't take drugs, curse loudly in public, or visit hookers. The point of Libertarianism is that even if you disagree with someone, they still own themselves and have the right to do as they please unless it harms others.
    Thanks for answering. Now for one more question. Would you want the government to decriminalize drugs, decriminalize prostitution, and have greater freedoms of expression due to laws regarding cursing and being loud repealed? Or would you want government regulation on decriminalized drugs (with many arguing the tax them highly argument), to have the government involved in prostitution (registering them with a government system that forces them to be medically checked)?

    I'm not a libertarian, so you could say I'm an outsider looking in. But in my opinion I have regarding libertarians being "socially liberal" is that their reasons for holding their beliefs stem from two different core beliefs. I believe liberals hold their moral views that homosexual marriages should be legal, that drugs should be made legal, and that prostitution should be legalized because there is nothing morally wrong with it. I believe libertarians hold somewhat similar views, but their reasons for holding them stem from a more personal governance type of philosophy. That "I have my morals and you have yours, I'll live my life the way I want, and you can live yours the way you want and the government needs to get away from both of our lives and not legislate what is moral and immoral." Please correct me if I'm wrong. The thing I am finding is that although libertarians have common ground with liberals regarding social issues, their beliefs are not stemmed from the same core conviction.
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I would like to pose a question in regards to socially liberal libertarians. Are those views held because the individual believes the government shouldn't legislate morals (gay marriage, prostitution, abortions, etc). Or are they held because libertarians believe these things are morally correct and assert that the government should recognize them as so and extend legality/benefits to such things? If the first is true, would that be considered a left of the spectrum opinion? Or more of a "small government" right end of the spectrum opinion?
    If you believe the first is true, one is an anarchist. Telling people what's right and what's wrong is the point of government.

    Me, personally? I reject both viewpoints. I believe prostitution is wrong, but I permit others to make their own decisions when they don't harm others.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I answered your question. I added the link, because I thought it added some interesting viewpoints that aren't my own.
    You did. My post was pretty much a shout out to anyone reading it.

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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Thanks for answering. Now for one more question. Would you want the government to decriminalize drugs, decriminalize prostitution, and have greater freedoms of expression due to laws regarding cursing and being loud repealed? Or would you want government regulation on decriminalized drugs (with many arguing the tax them highly argument), to have the government involved in prostitution (registering them with a government system that forces them to be medically checked)?
    Upholding transparency, contractual obligations, restrictions on sale to minors, restricting harm to others (i.e. DUI) and other government regulations necessary in a free market. I'm ok with sin taxes, but it shouldn't be so high as to just let black market dealers go right back in.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I'm not a libertarian, so you could say I'm an outsider looking in. But in my opinion I have regarding libertarians being "socially liberal" is that their reasons for holding their beliefs stem from two different core beliefs. I believe liberals hold their moral views that homosexual marriages should be legal, that drugs should be made legal, and that prostitution should be legalized because there is nothing morally wrong with it. I believe libertarians hold somewhat similar views, but their reasons for holding them stem from a more personal governance type of philosophy. That "I have my morals and you have yours, I'll live my life the way I want, and you can live yours the way you want and the government needs to get away from both of our lives and not legislate what is moral and immoral." Please correct me if I'm wrong. The thing I am finding is that although libertarians have common ground with liberals regarding social issues, their beliefs are not stemmed from the same core conviction.
    I have no major ethical problem with most of these things. I may not like a person selling a dangerous drug to someone, but it is the user's choice to buy it. Ultimately, I don't see morality as something that you can force.
    "Doubleplusungood"

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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Ultimately, I don't see morality as something that you can force.
    You support laws criminalizing murder (I assume). How is that not enforcing morality?

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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    Sorry if this ticks some of you off, but I intentionally left out a "Moderate" option in the poll. I'd rather not have anybody sitting on the fence.

    If you're having trouble, think about this: when someone posts a thread with a title claiming the entire Left or Right is bigoted, delusional, etc, does your reaction change depending on which side is being targeted?
    Neither, Libertarians see that the linear political spectrum is bull****, the spectrum based on the Nolan Chart is more accurate, and it is based not on left or right but on statism and anti-statism, both the extemes of the left and right (communists and fascists) are in reality just extreme statists while liberals and conservatives are in reality just milder statists though conservatives won't admit it, but just wait until it's time for a corporate bail or anti-drug legislation.

    As an anarchist and a libertarian I am neither left or right, I am anti-state and pro-individual rights.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 07-23-10 at 01:59 AM.

  8. #18
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Digsbe, to me it seems you are trying force a diverse group that has wide ranging and disparate beliefs into a neat tidy homogeneous group morality. There is no set morality, and the libertarian label encompasses a wide array of moralities with the central theme being I do you no harm, you do me no harm, morality is individualized and personal.

    edit to answer the OP's question: I have some libertarian tendencies, especially when it comes to morality, If I were to force a categorization onto myself, it would be a left leaning socially liberal libertarian(esque) amalgamation, or for simplicity maybe just an old school classic liberal without a niche to call home.
    Last edited by marduc; 07-23-10 at 02:06 AM.
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Neither, Libertarians see that the linear political spectrum is bull****, the spectrum based on the Nolan Chart is more accurate, and it is based not on left or right but on statism and anti-statism, both the extemes of the left and right (communists and fascists) are in reality just extreme statists while liberals and conservatives are in reality just milder statists though conservatives won't admit it, but just wait until it's time for a corporate bail or anti-drug legislation.

    As an anarchist and a libertarian I am neither left or right, I am anti-state and pro-individual rights.
    Interesting. As a libertarian myself, I, as a matter of fact, don't see the 1D spectrum as bull****, because it's an efficient, one-syllable way to describe someone who's liberal/conservative along both axes. I was merely asking if anyone here preferred a conservative over a liberal politician or vice versa.

    BTW, your allegation that fascism is extreme conservatism? I call BS. Fascism is economically centrist, whereas an extreme right-wing country would have an utterly free market.

  10. #20
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    Re: Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    You support laws criminalizing murder (I assume). How is that not enforcing morality?
    Because you are harming someone else. I mentioned this.
    "Doubleplusungood"

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