View Poll Results: Unemployment....why???

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  • Conservative policies

    22 16.18%
  • Liberal policies

    83 61.03%
  • both

    22 16.18%
  • our greed

    21 15.44%
  • other, please explain.

    26 19.12%
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Thread: Why the unemployment? A poll

  1. #151
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    Re: Why the unemployment? A poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Other.

    The moronic behavior of our Congress and President have made doing business here, less stable.
    Banks/businesses have a cash surplus right now and won't hire anyone because of uncertainty.
    That may address why nothing is changing but noit the root cause. We went through a period of great affluence. As much as people bang on the Bush tax cuts we forget that markets were up, home costs were up, private business ownership was up, and unemployment was at 3-5%. The problem is the nation squandered that opportunity. And the blame runs across the board. The government spent money like crazy. No one is guiltless there. Both sides rolled in the trough and Bush signed the legislation. Banks and big business to be sure went after profit and did so irresponsibly. But lets not forget...we the people. We saw the housing boom...we bought homes we couldnt afford, we bought into the second and third home flipping markets, and housing costs SOARED. 150,000.00 house is STILL really only worth 150,000.00...but due to the boom buying and spending it now goes for 4-500,000.00 dollars. And for a while there...3-5 years...that was fine. Destructive, but fine. We were bujying trucks (which kept getting bigger and more lavish) for 45-50,000.00 WHO CARES! Mwuhahaha!!! Credit that beeeyotch...hell lets go froma 4 to an 8 year loan...keep the payments affordable..and hey...you know what? Screw that...Im going to refinance my 500,000.00 home and roll all my loans into the loan amount. Yahoo!!! More money to spend! OK...so now my $150,000.00 home costs $625,000.00...before interest...but who cares...its only money, right?

    George Bush didnt do it. Barney Frank didnt do it. Fat cat bankers didnt do it. Amercan people want to know who REALLY ****ed things up? Grab a mirror.

  2. #152
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    Re: Why the unemployment? A poll

    People thought that investments couldn't fail. Truly believed it. Hopefully this is a good shock to the system at least. Investment should be based on a reasonable expectation of future demand, not the idea that "housing prices will never fall" (which is something I'm sure we all heard before the crash).

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #153
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    Re: Why the unemployment? A poll

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So if protectionism is the reason, why didn't it work for Brazil?
    Protectionism did work for Brazil, at least in the market for ethanol. Brazil has had substantial government support of its ethanol industry and tariffs on imported ethanol. Now that it has a dominant position in the world ethanol market, it wants "free trade":

    “We would not support reducing the U.S. import tariff, despite whatever Brazil is temporarily doing, because Brazilian ethanol already enjoys generous subsidies from the Brazilian government and to provide them access to additional subsidies from the U.S. government makes no sense,” said Growth Energy CEO Tom Buis. “If we want to import something from Brazil it should be the same resolve to become energy independent. Brazil wisely saw the importance of supporting and incentivizing their domestic ethanol industry and now they are energy exporters while the U.S. continues to rely heavily on foreign oil. The U.S. would do well to follow their example and promote American ethanol producers rather than giving tax breaks to foreign ethanol and increasing our dependence on foreign energy.”

    Brazil Eliminates Tariff on Ethanol Imports - Domestic Fuel
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  4. #154
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    Re: Why the unemployment? A poll

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    That may address why nothing is changing but noit the root cause. We went through a period of great affluence. As much as people bang on the Bush tax cuts we forget that markets were up, home costs were up, private business ownership was up, and unemployment was at 3-5%. The problem is the nation squandered that opportunity. And the blame runs across the board. The government spent money like crazy. No one is guiltless there. Both sides rolled in the trough and Bush signed the legislation. Banks and big business to be sure went after profit and did so irresponsibly. But lets not forget...we the people. We saw the housing boom...we bought homes we couldnt afford, we bought into the second and third home flipping markets, and housing costs SOARED. 150,000.00 house is STILL really only worth 150,000.00...but due to the boom buying and spending it now goes for 4-500,000.00 dollars. And for a while there...3-5 years...that was fine. Destructive, but fine. We were bujying trucks (which kept getting bigger and more lavish) for 45-50,000.00 WHO CARES! Mwuhahaha!!! Credit that beeeyotch...hell lets go froma 4 to an 8 year loan...keep the payments affordable..and hey...you know what? Screw that...Im going to refinance my 500,000.00 home and roll all my loans into the loan amount. Yahoo!!! More money to spend! OK...so now my $150,000.00 home costs $625,000.00...before interest...but who cares...its only money, right?

    George Bush didnt do it. Barney Frank didnt do it. Fat cat bankers didnt do it. Amercan people want to know who REALLY ****ed things up? Grab a mirror.
    Wait...theres more...

    Industry...sure...the business sold the jobs overseas in the name of profit...blame them...but also blame the unions that priced the American worker out of the market and made dealing with unions a nightmare. Healthcare? Sure...blame the evil insurance industry and hospitals...buit how often do you see commercials for lawyers that sue for everything in the world? If a scar is a few centimeters longer than it might have been, hell...sue the doc. make the doc charge MORE to pay for malpractice insurance. And on the subject of lawsuits...coffee too hot? Sue. Slip on ice in front of someones house? Sue. You make the choice to eat at McDonalds and get fat? Sue. And lets not forget the poor class...poor dears...its not your fault. You CANT succeed even if you WANT to..blame someone else and keep them poor.

    Why are we in an economic mess? Its not capitalism...its bull**** like this stuff we have been doing since the 60s. And its coming home to roost.
    Last edited by VanceMack; 07-24-10 at 12:48 PM.

  5. #155
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    Re: Why the unemployment? A poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Protectionism did work for Brazil, at least in the market for ethanol. Brazil has had substantial government support of its ethanol industry and tariffs on imported ethanol. Now that it has a dominant position in the world ethanol market, it wants "free trade":
    Hasn't brought them prosperity though. You can't forget that promoting one industry always comes at the expense of all of the others. I'm not doubting that protectionism works. I'm doubting that it is good for the country. Btw, it didn't work when they did it for their high-tech industry.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #156
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    Re: Why the unemployment? A poll

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So if protectionism is the reason, why didn't it work for Brazil?
    A few reasons

    Brazil of course has a corruption problem like many developed countries. But the main reason would be the racism within the country between the ethnic spanish, black and indian populations. The dominate ethnic spanish population want to maintain power both economic and political (as they go hand in hand generaly). As such they did not invest in the health and education of the ethnic black population, preventing much of that population from improving themselves economically, which would also improve the country economically. Brazil never focused on being an exporter of manufactured goods, just producing such goods for the domestic market (Notice how most manufacturers in Brazil are transplants). Ford, GM, Volkswagen and Fiat all produce cars in Brazil typically for the Brazilian market with design work being done in the home country not in Brazil, the same goes for farm equipment where John Deer is strong. Brazil never developed much in the way of domestically owned and operated manufacturers (Embraer(sp) being an exception). All Brazil did was require the foreign manufacturers to build their cars in Brazil. While that might produce manufacturing jobs and reduce trade deficits, it does not create much in the way of higher value or domestic profit (as the profits leave the country).

    Japan and South Korea focused on building domestically owned and operated companies, providing protected markets like Brazil, but focus's on creating the higher value jobs that Brazil did not. Which of course means that protectionism by itself is useless without other policies to encourage domestically owned and operated industries to go along with them. Where the protected home market can ensure the growing company has the time to expand and improve untill it can compete on the world level. Without that sort of policy, protectionism is useless
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 07-24-10 at 05:18 PM.
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  7. #157
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    Re: Why the unemployment? A poll

    So it worked for ethanol, but not for high tech. The reason is racism?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #158
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    Re: Why the unemployment? A poll

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So it worked for ethanol, but not for high tech. The reason is racism?
    Dont be so simple

    Ethnic divisions in a country where one ethnic group is smaller by population, but holds the economic and political power and wants to maintain that power, generally causes less investment in education for the other ethnic groups. A large poorly educated population is generally not good for high tech industries. But is quite good at farming sugar cane
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  9. #159
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    Re: Why the unemployment? A poll

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I'm not doubting that protectionism works. I'm doubting that it is good for the country.
    I think it depends. Defense is a vital role of government. I don't want to be dependent on a country like China for defense-related goods like aircraft and satellites, which we seem to have successfully subsidized and exploited over the years for civilian use. But the Chinese seem to be doing a good job stealing our technology and finding companies willing to make a buck by transferring technology to them in exchange for access to their markets. No one should think for one minute that China believes in free trade. China is all about industrial policy.
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  10. #160
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    Re: Why the unemployment? A poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    I think it depends. Defense is a vital role of government. I don't want to be dependent on a country like China for defense-related goods like aircraft and satellites, which we seem to have successfully subsidized and exploited over the years for civilian use. But the Chinese seem to be doing a good job stealing our technology and finding companies willing to make a buck by transferring technology to them in exchange for access to their markets. No one should think for one minute that China believes in free trade. China is all about industrial policy.
    I've made an exception for defense but that's it.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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