View Poll Results: Are you a Birther?

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Thread: Birther roll call

  1. #141
    Educator Gabriel's Avatar
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    Re: Birther roll call

    Rachel Maddow Show

    Awesome video on this subject.

  2. #142
    Guru
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    Re: Birther roll call

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    This shows pretty clearly that the Supreme Court considered anyone born in the United States, even to non-citizen parents to be natural-born citizens...
    Your quote...

    Originally Posted by 6.U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)

    "It thus clearly appears that by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country, and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign; and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born. The same rule was in force in all the English colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continues to prevail under the constitution as original established.
    This ain't England, we aren't subjects, and we fought 2 wars to prove it.

    The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.
    Minor vs Happersett

    That is US law as defined by 6 opinions of the Supreme court that have never been modified or overturned.

    The Venus, 12 U.S. (8 Cranch) 253, 289 (1814) (Marshall, C.J., concurring) (cites Vattel’s definition of natural born citizens); 123
    Vattel, who, though not very full to this point, is more explicit and more satisfactory on it than any other whose work has fallen into my hands, says, 'the citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or indigenes, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. Society not being able to subsist and to perpetuate itself but by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.' 12 US 253 The Venus Rae Master | OpenJurist

    Shanks v. Dupont, 28 U.S. 242, 245 (1830) (same definition without citing Vattel);

    Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 167-68 (1875) (same definition without citing Vattel);

    Ex parte Reynolds, 1879, 5 Dill., 394, 402 (same definition and cites Vattel);

    United States v. Ward, 42 F.320 (C.C.S.D.Cal. 1890) (same definition and cites Vattel);

    U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) (only declared under the Fourteenth Amendment a child born on U.S. soil to foreign parents and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States a “citizen of the United States” and not an Article II “natural born Citizen” and Fuller, C.J, dissenting confirming Vattel’s definition of a “natural born Citizen” );

    Feel free to find any Supreme Court case that supports your definition..... good luck with that.
    There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

    Originally Posted by PogueMoran
    I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

  3. #143
    Frankernaut peepnklown's Avatar
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    Re: Birther roll call

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Source of said definition?
    I clearly pointed to post #121.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

  4. #144
    Frankernaut peepnklown's Avatar
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    Re: Birther roll call

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    This shows pretty clearly that the Supreme Court considered anyone born in the United States, even to non-citizen parents to be natural-born citizens...
    1. If you continued to quote the final decision paragraph you would see that Wong was considered a US citizen which is different from a natural born citizen.
    2. A natural born subject is different from a natural born citizen.
    To quickly see the difference, England was under a king while America was not of course!
    Last edited by peepnklown; 07-23-10 at 09:30 PM.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

  5. #145
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    Re: Birther roll call

    Quote Originally Posted by peepnklown View Post
    I clearly pointed to post #121.
    From what I can see in post 121…

    That definition would mean no child born of US citizens (one or both), if born outside the US, would be eligible for the position of POTUS.

    That would, in turn, mean that no child born outside the US to a US military member (or other service, such as diplomatic, etc.), with another US citizen or with an alien, could become POTUS.

    Is that acceptable to you?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  6. #146
    Frankernaut peepnklown's Avatar
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    Re: Birther roll call

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Is that acceptable to you?
    I already defined it in post #137!
    To be eligible for the position of POTUS you have to be a natural born citizen.
    A natural born citizen is a person born in the country, of parents (plural) who are citizens.
    If we want to change the rules, then we need to amend the US Constitution.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

  7. #147
    Sporadic insanity normal.


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    Re: Birther roll call

    Quote Originally Posted by peepnklown View Post
    I already defined it in post #137!
    To be eligible for the position of POTUS you have to be a natural born citizen.
    A natural born citizen is a person born in the country, of parents (plural) who are citizens.
    If we want to change the rules, then we need to amend the US Constitution.
    I'm going to research this myself.

    If you are correct, I cannot see why it would not already have been changed, considering that multiple thousands of US citizens have been born outside the US, to US citizen parent(s), and denying them the possibility of a job as POTUS or VPOTUS just because of that fact seems completely unreasonable

    So, a link I’m reading atm: Natural born citizen of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  8. #148
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    Re: Birther roll call

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I'm going to research this myself.
    Good choice!
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

  9. #149
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    Re: Birther roll call

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I'm going to research this myself.

    If you are correct, I cannot see why it would not already have been changed, considering that multiple thousands of US citizens have been born outside the US, to US citizen parent(s), and denying them the possibility of a job as POTUS or VPOTUS just because of that fact seems completely unreasonable

    So, a link I’m reading atm: Natural born citizen of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Quote Originally Posted by peepnklown View Post
    Good choice!
    Some of you already seen this post (#269) that I PM'd you with.

    If you are going to research the issue. Please let me know what you think of the observations I made on it.

    POLITICO Forums:2010: Whispers persist despite election - POLITICO.com

    Thanks!

  10. #150
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    Re: Birther roll call

    Chuz, your PMs are off.
    I suppose Obama was born in Hawaii but, sadly this still does not qualify him for POTUS. The majority of the American people do not know the difference between natural born, native born, and US citizen. This is a big problem!
    I say, let’s suppose Obama was born in Hawaii and focus on teaching people the definition of natural born citizen.
    McCain by definition is also not a natural born citizen.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

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