View Poll Results: Is Taxation Slavery?

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  • Yes

    18 17.14%
  • No

    78 74.29%
  • Other (Explain)

    9 8.57%
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Thread: Is Taxation Slavery?

  1. #841
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    The rights that existed prior to the Constitution were formed under a different government. The form of government changed and thus the Bill of Rights ensures the government enacted by the Constitution will not trample over the specified rights of each individual. The 10th Amendment expressly includes the people: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    You also have a social contract with your state. If you feel the state has broken that contract you can choose to leave the state. For example, Virginians seceeded from their state to form West Virginia when Virginia sided with the Confederates during the Civil War.
    You just stated what I did and countered your original statement that the Bill of Rights gives you rights.

    The situation with West Virginia was done illegally under the Constitution specifically Article IV Section III Clause I.

    New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.


    Virginia legislature did not grant consent to the loss of the western 48 counties to form West Virginia.

  2. #842
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    John Paine described the constitution as a covernant among the founders and people of the United States. I believe it was from "The Rights Of Man". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covenant_(historical)
    That doesn't change anything I said.

  3. #843
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    The very preamble of the U.S. Constitution is written as such: "We the People of the United States...
    So? Whatever the preamble says, the Constitution, thru the -states- that ratified it, forms a federal system of government and describes the powers of that government as well as its relationship between it and the state. The very limited description of the interaction between the people and the federal government denotes that the relationship between same is limited, at best.

    Any 'social contract' between the people and the goverment is described as such, and limited to said description.

  4. #844
    Educator Helvidius's Avatar
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So? Whatever the preamble says, the Constitution, thru the -states- that ratified it, forms a federal system of government and describes the powers of that government as well as its relationship between it and the state. The very limited description of the interaction between the people and the federal government denotes that the relationship between same is limited, at best.

    Any 'social contract' between the people and the goverment is described as such, and limited to said description.
    I'm not sure I understood your previous post. Are you saying the social contract between the government and people is limited or there is no contract at all?
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  5. #845
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    I'm not sure I understood your previous post. Are you saying the social contract between the government and people is limited or there is no contract at all?
    The "social contract" between the people and the federal governmet is limited by the specifications of the constitution, in terms of how the people participate in and interact with the government and the limits of powers given to the government.

  6. #846
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    You just stated what I did and countered your original statement that the Bill of Rights gives you rights.

    The situation with West Virginia was done illegally under the Constitution specifically Article IV Section III Clause I.

    New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.


    Virginia legislature did not grant consent to the loss of the western 48 counties to form West Virginia.
    How did I counter my original statement about the Bill of Rights?

    And West Virginia was not admitted illegally. Virginia had seceeded from the Union and was at that point a part of the Confederacy. Therefore, Article IV Section III Clause I does not apply.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  7. #847
    Educator Helvidius's Avatar
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The "social contract" between the people and the federal governmet is limited by the specifications of the constitution, in terms of how the people participate in and interact with the government and the limits of powers given to the government.
    Ah gotcha. Yes, I agree with you. I think the argument turned into whether or not social contracts exist. But yes, I do believe the Constitution calls for both limited federal government and a limited role by the people in terms of the US not having a democracy.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  8. #848
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    How did I counter my original statement about the Bill of Rights?

    And West Virginia was not admitted illegally. Virginia had seceeded from the Union and was at that point a part of the Confederacy. Therefore, Article IV Section III Clause I does not apply.
    It still required consent of the owner of the territory to turn it over to be made into another state. Therefore, Article IV Section III Clause I does apply. Now riddle me this, why is it legal for West Virginia to secede and the southern states wasn't?

  9. #849
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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    The Constitution is certainly open for debate. It in itself was a compromise between different members of the delegation. However, I believe the founding fathers were in agreement that all U.S. citizens have the right to bear arms.
    You really should read the second amendment before you debate it...

    ricksfolly

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    Re: Is Taxation Slavery?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    You really should read the second amendment before you debate it...
    He did. Thats why he said what he said.

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